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Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

stanfordreview.org

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Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#101

Post by AlbertCory »

weird-eye-issue wrote: post #61
AlbertCory wrote: post #27

For those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike.…

The lack of bad anecdotes on that page combined with the fact 13k people daily ride their bike on campus would only serve to make me not feel like wearing a helmet there... Yes that first story is unfortunate but I'd bet she just wasn't that great on a bike

Last sentence: really bad look for you there. Even if you're right, that "just wasn't that great" person could run into you, ace bicyclist that you are.

Whenever I talk to private pilots and mention people I know who've gotten killed flying a plane, they invariably say "I've looked at all those accidents and I'm confident I wouldn't have made that mistake."

Right. It's other people who have those accidents.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#102

Post by phonypc »

cratermoon wrote: post #86
phonypc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the famous bike crash pandemic of 1954.

It's a thought experiment, not a statement of fact.

"the potential for needing medical care, hospitalization, or funeral services which could result in someone else being unable to receive care is similar" reads as a (patently false) supposed fact.

There is no plausible future in which medical care needs to be rationed due to an overwhelming number of bicycle accidents.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#103

Post by AlbertCory »

detaro wrote: post #64
13415 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange anecdote: I once organized a workshop on reasoning about uncertainty and one of the attendants was a health official working on bike accident statistics. According to her, if going solely by the statistics, helmets would have to be prohibited in our country because people riding bikes with helmets had a significantly elevated risk of grave traffic accidents in comparison to those without helmets. Of course, s…

Or people with more dangerous routes are more likely to wear helmets. There's also some data to suggest that drivers are less careful around cyclists with helmets, e.g. passing them with less distance. Somewhat related, specifically in the context of requiring helmets there's also arguments that people dislike them enough that the reduction in cycling happening would have worse overall effects than the injury reducti…

That's an interesting question: similar to seatbelts causing more dangerous driving. Maybe.

However, we're talking about on campus here, not riding down Mission in the City.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#104

Post by bryanlarsen »

taeric wrote: post #42
retrac wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Just falling over on the bike while stationary (I admit I've managed this before) without being able to partially break your fall. could outright kill you if your head hits the pavement. (An uncontrolled fall from standing height to concrete such as by fainting can kill.) Even if you don't die, head impacts are really bad for the brain.

I don't think I can underline this point enough. Helmets are just as effective on the slow/no speed fall as they are on the high speed ones. In many ways, I wouldn't be surprised if they are more effective there.

Humans have evolved reactions to protect their head when they fall at running speeds. For example, you instinctively throw out your arms to break the fall. It's when you are biking faster than a fast human can run that helmets become really necessary.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#105

Post by lambdaba »

pessimizer wrote: post #99
lambdaba wrote: post #10

This has been the best proof that intelligence and common sense don't necessarily go together. Not to single out Stanford students, there is no common sense to be found anywhere lately.

My common sense tells me not to waste decisionmaking effort on trying to figure out when I can get out of minor inconveniences. For example, instead if trying to figure out when I can get away with not using a turn signal, I'm as likely to put on a turn signal when turning in an empty parking lot or an empty road as I am in traffic. Introducing decisionmaking makes you slower, and gives you the opportunity to get it…

Okay, I confess my reading is they are actually doing this either out of worry of being infected while riding (note that authorities have mandated masks outdoors on beaches etc.) or more likely for signaling, and I don't like this very much. I try to do the opposite because I'd like to have a totally free face again.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#106

Post by bkohlmann »

scrose wrote: post #5

It’s interesting that the OP didn’t also consider that people wear masks on bikes to block out truck and car fumes and other particles that tend to fly in your face. I rarely wear a helmet when biking, but there’s a noticeable benefit when I’m biking around traffic and don’t have to breath in car exhaust because I’m wearing a mask.

OP here - I was on the Stanford campus in 2016 and 2017, frequently riding my bike there. Never once saw a mask on a bike rider. Very little car traffic on the routes bicyclists regularly use to get around. Also a frequent bike rider in my new city of Dallas. Very rarely (if ever), have I seen a cyclist (even on roads) wear a mask. Very likely masks on the Stanford campus are in response to COVID.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#107

Post by Delk »

cratermoon wrote: post #73
isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wearing a helmet does not affect people around you.

True, but the potential for needing medical care, hospitalization, or funeral services which could result in someone else being unable to receive care is similar.

If you include indirect effects, lots and lots of our actions and choices become morally charged. It's a good thing to include that in one's thinking, at least if you want to get higher than average in terms of ethical thinking, but it quickly becomes untenable if taken as an absolute.

Opting for not taking the stairs and using an elevator instead probably has some kind of a statistical relationship to needing hospital care. Choosing a sport or physical activity that includes a greater risk if injury is, in some sense, ethically worse than choosing one that gives the same benefits with a lower statistical risk of causing strain on the healthcare system. Technically, if you live in an area where snow and ice are present in winter, wearing wrist braces (or maybe even a helmet) while walking would reduce your risk of needing medical care in case of a fall. (The need for medical care for injuries to limbs due to falls is an actual thing.)

It turns out most of these are actually social or personal choices. You can analyse the statistical risk and the expected cost to healthcare and end up with different costs for various activities, but just the fact that there is a statistical or potential cost matters little.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#108

Post by jimmaswell »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #25
lambdaba wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is any sense in this I suspect it's more about signaling and conformity than anything else... I wonder if those places still see joggers wearing masks.

> I wonder if those places still see joggers wearing masks. In Palo Alto it’s definitely possible. A friend of mine who lives in nearby Atherton was complaining about joggers not wearing face masks (so I’m guessing he was while out running).

He's actually still complaining about people not wearing masks at this point, after the vaccine is widely available? I guess some people are going to be stuck in 2020 for the rest of their lives, like people who grew up in the depression and could never stop hoarding food.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#109

Post by Delk »

the-dude wrote: post #91
akvadrako wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I presume you meant discouragement of helmets. I assume he didn't - the point is asking people to wear helmets discourages biking. In practice it's overall healthier to not ask people to wear helmets.

Ah, along those lines. Yes, I can confirm there is no discouragement of cycling. Like ever, not even when you are totally drunk.

Having visited Amsterdam once, I'm honestly a little surprised there are so few cycling accidents. The number of bikes is huge and the flow of it looked a bit like a controlled chaos.

The Dutch seem to have understood the street smarts and the unwritten rules of cycling (as applies to their environment) really well, so that probably explains it, along with a cycling-friendly environment.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#110

Post by cameldrv »

monological wrote: post #6
scrose wrote: post #5

It’s interesting that the OP didn’t also consider that people wear masks on bikes to block out truck and car fumes and other particles that tend to fly in your face. I rarely wear a helmet when biking, but there’s a noticeable benefit when I’m biking around traffic and don’t have to breath in car exhaust because I’m wearing a mask.

If it’s not N95 it won’t be blocking out P2.5 particulates emitted from exhausts.

Any mask will filter PM2.5 to some level. N95 is just more effective than some (but less than others)
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