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Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

stanfordreview.org

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Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#61

Post by weird-eye-issue »

AlbertCory wrote: post #27

For those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike.…

The lack of bad anecdotes on that page combined with the fact 13k people daily ride their bike on campus would only serve to make me not feel like wearing a helmet there...

Yes that first story is unfortunate but I'd bet she just wasn't that great on a bike

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#62

Post by seanmcdirmid »

aulin wrote: post #45
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The masks they recommend in China are the N95 ones with valves that are banned in the west. My guess why is because they have to contend with both a pandemic and high pollution levels.

not sure if they're banned or not, they're not recommended because the valve lets you exhale unfiltered air, which is rather pointless for covid protection. For particulate filtering they're perfect though.

They are banned on planes and such. You can’t even really layer them since the second mask under would break the seal.

The theories on mask wearing are different there and here, or perhaps there is just more flexibility. Since China has such a low infection rate, the difference between an in-coming or out-going filter probably isn’t going to matter much.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#63

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

cratermoon wrote: post #59
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11

The same is true in the Netherlands. Honestly, if they are biking around campus, they don’t need helmets. Helmets are needed on American roads because of poor biking infrastructure (not an issue on campus or in the Netherlands). The article is taking liberties using nationwide statistics to criticize local behavior.

Thought experiment: what if we looked at wearing a helmet as a choice the same way that anti-vaxxers would say the COVID-19 vaccine is a choice? If so, should people who choose not to wear a helmet while bicycling be subjected to the same social and economic consequences as people who "choose" not to get vaccinated?

Not wearing a helmet does not affect people around you.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#64

Post by detaro »

13415 wrote: post #58
AlbertCory wrote: post #27

For those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike.…

Strange anecdote: I once organized a workshop on reasoning about uncertainty and one of the attendants was a health official working on bike accident statistics. According to her, if going solely by the statistics, helmets would have to be prohibited in our country because people riding bikes with helmets had a significantly elevated risk of grave traffic accidents in comparison to those without helmets. Of course, s…

Or people with more dangerous routes are more likely to wear helmets.

There's also some data to suggest that drivers are less careful around cyclists with helmets, e.g. passing them with less distance.

Somewhat related, specifically in the context of requiring helmets there's also arguments that people dislike them enough that the reduction in cycling happening would have worse overall effects than the injury reduction.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#65

Post by cratermoon »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #46
retrac wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Just falling over on the bike while stationary (I admit I've managed this before) without being able to partially break your fall. could outright kill you if your head hits the pavement. (An uncontrolled fall from standing height to concrete such as by fainting can kill.) Even if you don't die, head impacts are really bad for the brain.

The statistics don’t lie. Biking in the Netherlands is incredibly safe even without helmet wearing. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09257... Turns out there are other ways to make cycling safe. One could argue that helmet wearing might make it even safer, but we are talking about optimizing a number that is already very low. I’ve been to Stanford before and the campus is pretty car free. It is…

Traffic and road infrastructure for cycling and cars is radically different from the US. Has anyone attempted to compare cycling injury and death data while controlling for street design, relevant laws, and driver behavior?

> we are talking about optimizing a number that is already very low.

In the US, we have almost zero change of optimizing the factors that are better at reducing not only bicycling but traffic injury and fatalities generally. Americans are so enamored with the personal automobiles that fixing the roads and infrastructure is basically a non-starter. Holding that factor constant, the safety of wearing a helmet starts to become quite significant.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#66

Post by 99_00 »

fergie wrote: post #49

The author makes the mistake of associating cycling with head injuries. In fact, for young people the risk of head injury on a bike is significantly lower than the risk of contracting Covid on campus.

Is your argument that a cyclist can reduce health risks more by wearing a mask than wearing a helmet?

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#67

Post by cratermoon »

weird-eye-issue wrote: post #61
AlbertCory wrote: post #27

For those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike.…

The lack of bad anecdotes on that page combined with the fact 13k people daily ride their bike on campus would only serve to make me not feel like wearing a helmet there... Yes that first story is unfortunate but I'd bet she just wasn't that great on a bike

> I'd bet she just wasn't that great on a bike

Literally blaming the victim. Not a good look.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#68

Post by mike_h »

detaro wrote: post #64
13415 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange anecdote: I once organized a workshop on reasoning about uncertainty and one of the attendants was a health official working on bike accident statistics. According to her, if going solely by the statistics, helmets would have to be prohibited in our country because people riding bikes with helmets had a significantly elevated risk of grave traffic accidents in comparison to those without helmets. Of course, s…

Or people with more dangerous routes are more likely to wear helmets. There's also some data to suggest that drivers are less careful around cyclists with helmets, e.g. passing them with less distance. Somewhat related, specifically in the context of requiring helmets there's also arguments that people dislike them enough that the reduction in cycling happening would have worse overall effects than the injury reducti…

More dangerous routes on a more regular basis (committed to commuting on roads with cars), and mountain biking:

https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1261.html

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#69

Post by seanmcdirmid »

the-dude wrote: post #57
mike_h wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biking could indeed be even safer in the Netherlands if people wore helmets: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/neur.2020.0010 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014... Arguing that it’s a small optimization is one thing, but that doesn’t mean it’s “not needed”.

But you look like a dork. And what about your hair?

The discouragement of biking is a big deal in the Netherlands. They’d rather have everyone biking casually than a few dedicated speedsters decked out with the right equipment.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#70

Post by cratermoon »

josephcsible wrote: post #51
fergie wrote: post #49

The author makes the mistake of associating cycling with head injuries. In fact, for young people the risk of head injury on a bike is significantly lower than the risk of contracting Covid on campus.

The risk of contracting COVID at all? Maybe. The risk of harm from COVID as serious as a head injury? No way.

> The risk of harm from COVID as serious as a head injury? No way.

Uhm, what? COVID can kill you and if it doesn't kill you can leave you with what, so far, looks like life-long disability.

Sounds about like what a head injury can do.

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