Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 317 posts

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#71

Post by bettysdiagnose »

b112 wrote: post #45
zimpenfish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/571724-democrats-make-ca... It doesn't "grant citizenship", just provides a pathway for "Dreamers, temporary protected status holders, agricultural and other essential workers" to "getting permanent legal status or a green card". Which may then lead to citizenship if they meet the requirements.

Ah. So it does have more than climate change issues in it. As a Canuck, I see this as a huge US weakness. These megabills, riders and such. The parent's point is valid. If people cared, really, really cared, it would be a single purpose bill. It would be more effective too, in that, people could legitimately say... this is only about climate change. Nothing else. What part of this do you object to? Right now, it clea…

I suspect if the US political system weren't so dysfunctional, there wouldn't be any need to roll it into a single mega bill. I don't think it's about caring or not caring. Indeed to suggest that it's evidence that people don't care about it, those are your own projections. I don't think they make sense at all.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#72

Post by redis_mlc »

throwawaysea wrote: post #28
blue_box wrote: post #3

Before blaming them, we should ask why they are against it. “provide payments to prop up carbon-free nuclear energy” I would be also against a bill that includes this.

Could you explain your position? I feel like nuclear energy is one of the best options we have available for a reduction in carbon emissions, with very high safety despite public fears: https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_shellenberger_how_fear_of_... Or is your opposition more due to the proposed subsidy?

> with very high safety

Nope. Both Chernobyl and Fukushima will cost over $1 trillion to clean up, if ever. Can we send the bills to you?

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#73

Post by sepnax »

amelius wrote: post #66
akomtu wrote: post #47

If software was developed the way politicians pass laws, Linux would get one master commit every few years with thousands of unrelated things in it, from typo fixes to sketchy telemetry, with a 1500 pages long description, and the commit would be branded as "build security better". The review would be a months long show where maintainers of all factions with their own agendas would try to negotiate behind the closed…

Yes, but is a benevolent dictator the solution?

Here's what I propose, to lessen the effect of populism: The elections are held in a tournament format. People are divided into randomised brackets. People then in that bracket decide who amongst them is most fit to be a leader. This is then repeated recursively until enough politicians are selected.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#74

Post by the-dude »

apendleton wrote: post #51
VBprogrammer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'll never understand American politics. Linking a EV tax credit to unionisation just boggles my mind.

It's basically a bribe -- there was pretty well-sourced reporting that UAW was going to lobby against the electric vehicle package because electric require less manufacturing labor than ICE cars do (ugh), so this was the way to buy them off. It's sort of annoying, but probably tactically the right move given how much power labor has in Democratic politics.

This is the first time I have seen the word labor used in the context of US politics.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#75

Post by turbinerneiter »

wk_end wrote: post #32
perryizgr8 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where’s the inconvenience? I don't want to buy a new electric car. I have a perfectly working petrol car. Why should I subsidize some rich guy's fancy new electric toy?

Because the rest of us are subsidizing the externality of the destruction your petrol car is wreaking on the environment. ...also, given that you're calling it a "petrol" car - a Briticism - do you even live in the US? If not, you won't be the one subsidizing it in case this bill comes to pass anyway.

I don't even have a car, why should I subsizide someone elses? They should just not have a car, like me. If that doesn't work where they live, the move to somewhere where it works, and pay absurd rents, like I do.

I'm not strictly against the subsizidies, but they have sever social justice implications.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#76

Post by reillyse »

akomtu wrote: post #47

If software was developed the way politicians pass laws, Linux would get one master commit every few years with thousands of unrelated things in it, from typo fixes to sketchy telemetry, with a 1500 pages long description, and the commit would be branded as "build security better". The review would be a months long show where maintainers of all factions with their own agendas would try to negotiate behind the closed…

In fairness this is a feature of the American political system, the business of making laws does not have to be done this way. It’s just a sign of how dysfunctional the system is.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#77

Post by lelandfe »

b112 wrote: post #45
zimpenfish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/571724-democrats-make-ca... It doesn't "grant citizenship", just provides a pathway for "Dreamers, temporary protected status holders, agricultural and other essential workers" to "getting permanent legal status or a green card". Which may then lead to citizenship if they meet the requirements.

Ah. So it does have more than climate change issues in it. As a Canuck, I see this as a huge US weakness. These megabills, riders and such. The parent's point is valid. If people cared, really, really cared, it would be a single purpose bill. It would be more effective too, in that, people could legitimately say... this is only about climate change. Nothing else. What part of this do you object to? Right now, it clea…

> What part of this do you object to?

Given the lack of success of, well, any major climate change action in the US, this quality would probably not provide much.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#78

Post by rndgermandude »

roenxi wrote: post #52
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, god forbid we try to drag ourselves into the 21st century, and get somewhere close to what every other modern democracy has offered for decades.

You say that, but I get the feeling we've been here before. Pretty much every time there is an ambitious and expensive spending bill after a couple of years it turns out that the 21st century is still ahead. Eg, Obamacare would probably have been described as dragging the US into the 21st century and getting somewhere close to what every other modern democracy has offered for decades. And yet it turned out not to, th…

>Eg, Obamacare would probably have been described as dragging the US into the 21st century and getting somewhere close to what every other modern democracy has offered for decades.

Uhm, no. Obamacare is basically a Republican brainchild, mostly conceptualized by the Heritage Foundation in the late 1980s. I wouldn't describe it as dragging the US into the 21st century... more like dragging it barely into the 20th century.

>And yet it turned out not to, the rhetoric is still that US healthcare is pretty bad.

US Healthcare is pretty good. But also extremely expensive at the same time, with lots of people unable to afford it, even when they have health insurance thanks to huge co-payments. You keep hearing the stories of severely injured people screaming they do NOT want to go to the hospital because they cannot afford it, and of other people who are brought to the ER, then amass huge debt in a short time that bankrupts them, and then they end up dying very prematurely anyway because the actual life-saving treatment or surgery is something they couldn't afford before, and certainly cannot afford after seeing the initial ER bill.

Waiting a few months at worst for a hip replacement surgery in Germany seems fine compared to waiting for hip replacement surgery forever and never actually getting it in the US because you cannot afford it even though you worked two jobs your entire life. All the while the US spends 17% of their GDP on health care, bout 5% points more than most other western nations.

That's the state of affairs after Obamacare. And yet, Obamacare still made things better than before for a lot of people.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#79

Post by tialaramex »

apendleton wrote: post #51
VBprogrammer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'll never understand American politics. Linking a EV tax credit to unionisation just boggles my mind.

It's basically a bribe -- there was pretty well-sourced reporting that UAW was going to lobby against the electric vehicle package because electric require less manufacturing labor than ICE cars do (ugh), so this was the way to buy them off. It's sort of annoying, but probably tactically the right move given how much power labor has in Democratic politics.

Doctors in the UK were effectively bribed to allow the National Health Service to be created. "I stuffed their mouths with gold" is the quote. Organised, doctors could have simply refused to take any part in this endeavour and killed it, but with some having sound ethical reason to agree with the plan and others having financial reasons that was enough to ensure that resistance was piecemeal and today even those who most want to destroy the NHS are obliged to couch this as "reform".

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#80

Post by mhh__ »

akomtu wrote: post #47

If software was developed the way politicians pass laws, Linux would get one master commit every few years with thousands of unrelated things in it, from typo fixes to sketchy telemetry, with a 1500 pages long description, and the commit would be branded as "build security better". The review would be a months long show where maintainers of all factions with their own agendas would try to negotiate behind the closed…

You're probably underestimating the amount of boring laws passed in a given time period.
Post reply on HN