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Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

economist.com

321–330 of 344 posts

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#321
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, does this apply to EV's, too?

> does this apply to EV's, too? Not "pumping" losses, no. There is no intake air or exhaust gas to pump. EVs may experience an effect that is similar in practice, albeit much smaller... Things like headlights, HVAC, entertainment systems, etc., will draw more power the longer it takes you to get to your destination, so reducing your speed from 30 to 15 MPH might not be an efficiency win.

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Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Prices, not arbitrary bans, are the correct way to incorporate externalities in the costs of a product. People are far too happy to promote ad-hoc bans of all sorts of arbitrary things without creating any kind of general incentive structure that would automatically optimize the metrics of interest. The result is malinvestment, economic inefficiency, and global poverty. The problem is that the externality is s…

OTOH 50% of emissions are due to the richest 1%. [1] They are price insensitive for the most part. Their yachts and personal airplanes don't make a dent in their billions of assets. I still support carbon taxes as a source of investment for sustainable transition. https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/carbon-emissions-ric...

How about a progressive carbon tax? (Progressive in the same way that income taxes are.)

It might be a bear to administer, though...

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#323

Beef is delicious. Meat is delicious. We have to figure out how to replace that before we get rid of cattle farms.

It's not as delicious to people who grow up not eating meat. I expect if we want a change it'll have to be generational.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#324
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, does this apply to EV's, too?

> does this apply to EV's, too? Not "pumping" losses, no. There is no intake air or exhaust gas to pump. EVs may experience an effect that is similar in practice, albeit much smaller... Things like headlights, HVAC, entertainment systems, etc., will draw more power the longer it takes you to get to your destination, so reducing your speed from 30 to 15 MPH might not be an efficiency win.

No- those losses (less the engine idle speed) are relatively larger for electric, because alternator loss is already baked into the efficiency for ice engines.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I need to pay carbon tax on my dog?

Unless your dog burns fossil fuels you most likely only need to pay carbon tax on the dog products you use that were made using fossil fuels. Dogs don't produce a lot of Methane either, because they're not ruminants.

> Unless your dog burns fossil fuels

Cattle only burn fossil fuels to the extent that transporting water and feed, fertilizing that feed, and manufacturing and transporting fencing materials, antibiotics, etc, use.

Guess what? Your dog has roughly the same impact making and transporting his food, his water, his veterinarian supplies, any bedding you've purchased, bags to dispose of his feces, collars, leashes, toys, etc.

I don't have hard numbers but intuitively I'd guess dogs and cattle have approximately the same climate impact on a pound-of-bodyweight basis.

Dogs probably have slightly more, since they live in much more luxurious digs than CAFO cattle, eat higher quality feed, get to ride in cars, etc.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I'm being gaslighted. In advanced physical chemistry we took IR spectroscopy of methane and CO2 and CO2 definitely had much, much more absorption than methane on account of the dipole difference between Carbon and oxygen (IR absorption depends on stretching modes between atoms of different electronegativity, carbon is very close to methane). At the time, it was explained to us young chemistry students tha…

the greenhouse effect is about internal reflections basically. its the same effect that makes cloth appear darker when its wet even though water is basically colorless. greenhouse gases bend light slightly, making it more likely that a light ray will hit the ground multiple times.

This is a wrong answer if I've ever heard one.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#328
post #88
post #23

artificial plant based meat is treated with so many chemicals that it is potentially worse for you than eating real meat

Citation needed. "Chemicals" are not all bad. Everything you eat is a chemical.

true. the question is whether your body can deal with it. it knows how to deal with chemicals it has been exposed to for thousands of years. it doesn’t know very well how to deal with GMOs.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#329
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a certain amount of carbon in the atmosphere, and a certain amount of carbon in the ground. When you burn oil, you take carbon from the ground and introduce it into the atmosphere. This increases the total amount of carbon resident in the atmosphere. When you grow plants, you take carbon out of the atmosphere. When you eat it, you release it back into the atmosphere. The total amount of carbon resident in th…

Grass grows more vigorously but also consumes more nutrients when regularly pruned, other plants also "grow more vigorously" e.g get replanted when harvested by humans. This does not seem unique to grass or animal feeding. Even if it was, grass-fed beef is about 1% of the supply in the US. It has also been shown that grass-fed beef on average causes more environmental degradation than conventionally fed beef, due to…

I never claimed the phenomena was unique to this situation - it's a general phenomena.

Deforestation is a real problem. How do you address this from a policy perspective? If you ban beef, that is only a temporary band-aid on the real problem of deforestation, which both fails to address deforestation properly, and which prevents beneficial uses of livestock such as for reuse of food waste products, grazing of natural grasslands, production of natural fertilizer, etc.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#330

Beef is delicious. Meat is delicious. We have to figure out how to replace that before we get rid of cattle farms.

It's not as delicious to people who grow up not eating meat. I expect if we want a change it'll have to be generational.

Meat is delicious even to life long vegetarians. This is anecdotal but just that fact that we have glutamate receptors means it probably generally holds true.
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