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NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

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Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#571
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not possible to trace where the money is coming from. Chain analysis is certainly something you can do.

Can't you just wash your transactions with Monero?

I don't know of a great bridge between Ethereum & Monero.

You can use TornadoCash on Ethereum & this was used in a recent scandal involving NFTs by the ex-head of product of openseas.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#572
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh I have spent ~100 on smaller stuff on hicetnunc. The majority has been on art made by people that I know, and I've really enjoyed the new artists that I've found. I'm uninterested in the NFTs with big price tags, and I'm uninterested in pieces that I don't subjectively enjoy the art of. I care, but I'm guessing you either didn't literally mean nobody cares, or you are going to brush off this counter example for wh…

Interesting - what is it that makes you care? (Possibly related question: why didn't you just donate ~100 to the artists you found and enjoyed?)

There's a couple things:

I like the fact that it's normal to include royalties on secondary sales, I think that it much better for the artist.

I generally like generative art and there's really been a huge explosion in generative art being produced.

I already followed some of the artists that have minted and was excited to more fully participate by buying some of their NFTs

I don't find NFT ownership that different than high end physical art ownership (high end enough that you simply don't display it, but display a replica instead)

Lastly for the friends I have bought from, donating money and buying something are very different social interactions. IMO donating money creates an implicit power imbalance, there's a connitation of being owed something in return. Instead I am buying something from them, that is a market based interaction & while it has good feelings associated there is no power/reciprocity imbalance there. They aren't doing this for their full time job, just a fun hobby.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#573

NFT always felt ridiculous to me, but I though I understood the mechanism: "it's like baseball cards but in the blockchain". This week I learned it's not. NFT are Non Fungible Tokens, which means tokens that can't be divided, unlike crypto currencies like Bitcoin that can be divided in Satoshis. So you exchange the totality of it, or not. Basically it's a unique number in the blockchain you change ownership by applyi…

Anyone who buys these things is getting scammed and I feel sorry for them. I have friends who regularly fall for MLMs and other scams like this, and they never seem to learn. Is there any way to get through to them?

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best explanation is that NFTs are a very fancy system of provenance (which the art world already takes very seriously).

NFT's doesn't prove anything though. The art world care a lot about originals, but an NFT cannot prove that something is an original. Nothing would prevent the author from just issuing a lot of NFT's pointing to a lot of copies of the same art piece. They are even worse than that, NFT doesn't even represent the piece of art, if the service it is connected to goes down then the NFT points to nothing, you can't even pr…

>Nothing would prevent the author from just issuing a lot of NFT's pointing to a lot of copies of the same art piece

Nothing prevents an author from just issuing a lot of duplicate art and claiming they are the original copy.

Except it's fraud and people would likely figure it out over time. That's the exact same scenario as the blockchain except it's even harder for the artist to cheat as everyone can see the blockchain so when the artist makes copies and tries to sell them then everyone can easily see that they are frauds.

>you can't even prove that it at one time pointed to a specific image

Most NFTs use IPFS which uses hashes to uniquely identify files and even if the file disappears from the internet it can be recovered by anyone who still has the original file and be back online.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of the proprietary entity you're referring to? I was curious so I took a short course that covered minting NFTs with Solidity, and the way it seemed to work is that the JSON strings (which contain the base64 encoded image) are stored (as an ERC-721 token) on the Ethereum blockchain. Eg. you can see a random such token here: https://rinkeby.etherscan.io/token/0x6b96751051cd25c29cdcea7... The on…

Maybe a stupid question, but where do I find the base64 encoded image in your linked token? The only thing I can see is a transaction moving it from one address to another, the contract bytecode (which I guess might encode an image but its definitely not obvious[1]) and the "extra data" hex in the transaction (that doesn't appear to be an encoded image either, from what I can tell). I'm probably missing something, so…

I'm not sure about that either TBH! If you copy the to address (0x22f542cd394fba213df8d1f6c46f454b74e05503) and paste it into testnets.opensea.io then you can see the collection here: https://testnets.opensea.io/0x22f542cd394fba213df8d1f6c46f45...

The contract has no mention of opensea, so they must be reading it from the blockchain somehow - but I guess etherscan doesn't display these tokens in a similar way for some reason. It's all pretty new to me and I definitely don't have a super joined up understanding of it all!

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#576
post #335
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both correct and underestimating how broken NFTs are. If you buy an NFT that gives you nothing except bragging rights that you "own" this NFT. What ownership actually means when devoid of the associated rights is anyones guess. Buying an NFT of a GIF doesn't stop anyone from using that GIF on reddit. No one is going around checking if posted GIFs have a matching NFT out there and enforcing property rights base…

I think you underestimate how important bragging rights are. That's the reason people purchase Rolex watches! And because you can't show off your Rolex watch in the online world, instead you'll use an NFT as a profil pic. I think it's hard for people that don't care about bragging rights / status symbols to understand NFTs. Conversely, I think that status symbols are a very important part of the lives of the people t…

>That's the reason people purchase Rolex watches

But people can just make fake Rolex watches and wear those too! Watches are a scam /s

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that replicas are a problem in the real world art world as well right? In real world art this is resolved by proving providence, in crypto providence from minting is trivial, but you still need to prove providence that the minting was honest.

In the real art world replicas are... well replicas. Regardless of how good they are, they're not exactly the same, a trained eye can tell them apart. That's not the case when making a copy of the file. You get a perfect one-to-one replica that nobody can tell apart in any way.

On the other hand, it's trivial to show that an NFT is authentic and not a replica. The difficult part, as always with cryptography, is linking a public key to a know identity.

If you have a trusted channel from the artist (e.g. their twitter feed) it's trivial for them to indicate that a given public key/wallet address is theirs and therefore anything minted on there is authentic and anything minted elsewhere is not.

Determining if a real world piece of art is a replica or authentic can be fairly expensive. Determining if an NFT is authentic is much much cheaper.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that replicas are a problem in the real world art world as well right? In real world art this is resolved by proving providence, in crypto providence from minting is trivial, but you still need to prove providence that the minting was honest.

I think you are confusing providence for provenance here

Ah yeah edited, thanks!

EDIT: oh the window has passed.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you own the NFT, which people value because the artist issued it.

Cool, if you want to pay real dollars for a digitally signed link to a web resource, go ahead.

The link is a red herring. Just like an original Picasso, the content of the thing you own is responsible for very little of its value (an excellent forgery would deliver all the aesthetic value of the original, but it would be much less valuable). The provenance of the thing is the reason it is valued. There’s really nothing new or unique about NFTs other than the technology used to implement them.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#580
post #313
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to first know which public key is genuine.

Well blockchains aren't trying to solve the digital identity problem. Artists can share their public key however they like.

>Well blockchains aren't trying to solve the digital identity problem

They are! BrightID and Proof of Humanity are two of the leading projects working on decentralized identity. It's a pretty exciting space!

https://www.brightid.org/ https://www.proofofhumanity.id/

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