Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics • Hacker News Board

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#41

Post by ordinaryradical » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

kybernetikos wrote: post #27

acjohnson55 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way I've come to think of it is that Sybil resistance comes from having the next block producer chosen by a raffle, with some resource used as the ticket. PoW is an example of the resource being exogenous to the system and PoS is an example of the resource being endogenous. A problem I see with both is that they are inherently plutocratic, in that the wealthiest participants will have greater economies of scale i…

This is true, however it's also not an unusual feature - pretty much every capitalist society has the characteristic that those with capital can gain more capital with a minimum of additional work. Alternatives that don't have that feature to at least some extent would be regarded as very radical, and difficult to implement.

This has already been implemented in at least one other crypto successfully. See: Nano (formerly Raiblocks).

The crypto community, however, seems to have a very narrow focus on reproducing these plutocratic systems and incentives because everyone wants that power for themselves and wants to be first in whatever the Next Big Thing is. Crypto development as a whole seems to be hampered by these incentives and by an excessive focus on the original technologies of Bitcoin as opposed to its original aims.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#42

Post by sonoffett » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

jlokier wrote: post #24

Heh. I worked on a type of photonic PoW in 2019 (but it wasn't silicon photonics). - It's faster and lower power for the hash rate. It's worth it. But not as fast and low power as hoped. - It's a great advantage for the early adopter who can mine that bit faster than everyone else for a short time. That was the motivation for the project. - Contrary to the title of the article, making hashing faster for less energy d…

As an aside, the algorand layer-1 chain uses VDFs to select a validating set per block, weighting member selection by how much crypto each account owns. They call it Pure Proof of Stake. It definitely reduces the energy consumption and increases network throughput, of course with trade offs. See:

https://www.algorand.com/technology/research-innovation/rese...

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#43

Post by tomhunters » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

This is a great approach. You can see how they're going to change crypto mining through their interview Q&As. I'm just hoping that they will properly execute the plan.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#44

Post by Mdubrov » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

You can play with mining heavyhash (the underlying algorithm for photonic mining discussed in the story) on your cpu/gpu here

https://pool.obtc.me/home

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#45

Post by tsimionescu » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

casi18 wrote: post #23

tsimionescu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

If we want to bring climate change under control then coordination and communication tools that cross national borders are necessary. That is what many of us working in crypto are focused on, you might not yet value it, but we do. How do we collectively, as a planet, decide what is acceptable usage of energy and what isn't? Who gets to use machines and who doesn't? And how do we do that in a way that isn't authoritar…

If every person on the planet were using their GPU to play a few hours every day, they would probably not reach the amount of energy used by the Bitcoin blockchain alone.

All of the things you are citing require cooperation and discussion and democratic discourse. An algorithmically driven opaque protocol controlled by a handful of technocrats (the people developing the major clients and the ones running the major mining pools) is part of the problem, not a model for the solution.

Not to mention, money as a means of exchange is simply not one of the problems standing in the way of stopping global warming. The biggest problems are caused by rich people who have calculated that they will not be personally impacted, who couldn't care less about the poor 90+% of the planet who will, and who have thus decided to prioritize increasing their wealth today over any sort of urgent changes. It is also perpetuated by organizational systems put in place a long time ago (mainly for profit corporations with lobbying power) that have the same goals - short term profit over any other consideration.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#46

Post by tsimionescu » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

incrudible wrote: post #20

tsimionescu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

Proof of work is wasteful in the same sense that having banks is wasteful. Imagine what it takes to operate a banking institution. It's not just electricity. It would be "efficient" to just write the word "bank" on a shack and then have one or two workers "guard" over all the deposits. Unfortunately, nobody would be willing to use such a bank. Actual banks that people use need to spend a lot of money just on maintain…

> Actual banks that people use need to spend a lot of money just on maintaining the charade of being proper custodians. Yet, they can still lose your deposit, in which case they rely on the government to bail them out.

The major difference is that, collectively, the world's banks are a decentralized system that processes billions of times more transactions every hour than Bitcoin and other major PoW coins have ever executed, while offering many services which are impossible to offer through Bitcoin - loans, insurance, the ability to recover your money from a fraudulent transaction, and many others.

Replacing this entire centuries old system is something that no one wants - not the left, not the right, nor the vast vast majority of crypto owners, who are just in it for a quick buck.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#47

Post by shanusmagnus » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #41

kybernetikos wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, however it's also not an unusual feature - pretty much every capitalist society has the characteristic that those with capital can gain more capital with a minimum of additional work. Alternatives that don't have that feature to at least some extent would be regarded as very radical, and difficult to implement.

This has already been implemented in at least one other crypto successfully. See: Nano (formerly Raiblocks). The crypto community, however, seems to have a very narrow focus on reproducing these plutocratic systems and incentives because everyone wants that power for themselves and wants to be first in whatever the Next Big Thing is. Crypto development as a whole seems to be hampered by these incentives and by an exc…

I don't think it's an excessive focus on BTC technology, so much as that BTC abstracts the core issues to their fundamental essence and forces the tradeoffs on those terms, without obfuscating them. For instance, POW is extremely clear: you make a sacrifice to create blocks / mint transactions. It's almost biblical -- the game theory doesn't work without the sacrifice, and sacrifice is, tautologically, a tradeoff of one precious thing for another. All other crypto projects either want free lunch someplace, or make very different tradeoffs and assumptions.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#48

Post by tsimionescu » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #22

tsimionescu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

>>Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way You've never been denied financial services due to discriminatory policies, or you would not claim that. Everything needs to migrate to the public blockchain: banking, online markets, social media platforms, etc. Giving a handful of corporations and governments control over almost every aspect of every one's lives is dangerous and…

Yes, much better to give such control to an algorithm and protocol written and controlled by a handful of engineers and mining pool owners.

And make no mistake: in a state that allows or encourages financial institutions to discriminate, you will eventually be discriminated against with Bitcoin as well. The state may not have caught up to the technology yet, but social problems can't be fixed with technology.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#49

Post by tsimionescu » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

tromp wrote: post #19

tsimionescu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

> worse than traditional currencies in every way Yes, they're worse in many ways, but that is exactly the design decision they made in order to be better in one particular way; to be censorship resistant (and permissionless). Not all are deflationary; many have a tail emission that makes the supply dis-inflationary.

Nothing is censorship resistant against a determined censor. If crypto sees more and more adoption, exchanges and companies accepting it will likely get pushed to implement KYC and AML just as much as banks are.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#50

Post by wyager » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

lt wrote: post #36

wyager wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ownership of cryptocurrency (PoS) The problem is that PoS commitment isn’t binding. You can always stake your money, then if you don’t like the outcome, you can just pretend the first stake never happened and do it again. Cf “grinding” attack. PoW is unique in that any claimed commitment corresponds to a real, physical, irrevertable commitment. > or storage space as that rare resource. Every storage coin so far has…

What's a DINO scam? Couldn't google anything relevant.

DINO stands for “decentralized in name only”, which refers to the shockingly common case of a crypto-thing advertising itself as decentralized when in fact it is controlled by a single entity or cartel.