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Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

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Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think widespread institutional adoption of crypto is pretty important in this regard.Operating a photonic miner being hard provides more incentive to be a part of those 'mining' it, as you might expect. So, if it's beyond average user scope but within say .1-1% of a companies budget and could create massive dividends, why shouldn't they invest in this? It can be a little gross to consider, because no ones like idea…

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

'Impossible to control'.

Born to a generation that has lost faith in governments, this is why i have crypto.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think widespread institutional adoption of crypto is pretty important in this regard.Operating a photonic miner being hard provides more incentive to be a part of those 'mining' it, as you might expect. So, if it's beyond average user scope but within say .1-1% of a companies budget and could create massive dividends, why shouldn't they invest in this? It can be a little gross to consider, because no ones like idea…

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

>>Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way

You've never been denied financial services due to discriminatory policies, or you would not claim that.

Everything needs to migrate to the public blockchain: banking, online markets, social media platforms, etc. Giving a handful of corporations and governments control over almost every aspect of every one's lives is dangerous and corrupting.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#23
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think widespread institutional adoption of crypto is pretty important in this regard.Operating a photonic miner being hard provides more incentive to be a part of those 'mining' it, as you might expect. So, if it's beyond average user scope but within say .1-1% of a companies budget and could create massive dividends, why shouldn't they invest in this? It can be a little gross to consider, because no ones like idea…

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

If we want to bring climate change under control then coordination and communication tools that cross national borders are necessary. That is what many of us working in crypto are focused on, you might not yet value it, but we do.

How do we collectively, as a planet, decide what is acceptable usage of energy and what isn't? Who gets to use machines and who doesn't? And how do we do that in a way that isn't authoritarian, and held together with violence?

Is it wrong to use my gpu playing video games all day, or is the moral panic only applying to certain uses of computers?

When you say it should be stopped instantly you should clarify what you mean by that, what action do you see being taken?

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#24
Heh. I worked on a type of photonic PoW in 2019 (but it wasn't silicon photonics).

- It's faster and lower power for the hash rate. It's worth it. But not as fast and low power as hoped.

- It's a great advantage for the early adopter who can mine that bit faster than everyone else for a short time. That was the motivation for the project.

- Contrary to the title of the article, making hashing faster for less energy doesn't "help with the high energy consumption of the crypto currency mining activities" once the technology becomes available to enough miners.

It's the same as the introduction of ASICs before it: only a temporary advantage to those few who have it first. Of course that's only a few miners, so it doesn't affect energy consumption of the whole blockchain much. As soon as a new technology becomes widespread enough to have a significant effect on the whole blockchain, blockchain proof-of-work returns to exactly the same amount of energy consumption as whatever technology came before it.

It's because of how the mining-price system works, proof-of-work energy consumption is independent of the technology widely used. In other words, you can't solve the proof-of-work energy consumption problem with a new proof-of-work hashing technology.

So whenever you see a headline or article promoting a new proof-of-work solution on the grounds that it will reduce energy consumption of the blockchain - that's false. Snake oil, even.

(On the other hand, other mining methods such as proof-of-stake do reduce blockchain energy consumption for real, in exchange for different problems, perhaps.)

But I think the Eindhoven people have understood this, and it's the journalism that misleads in this respect. From the article:

> From our perspective, the ideal proof of work algorithm would be an algorithm that spends no energy, but time (i.e. pure delay). This kind of proof of work is hardly possible in the real world. So instead, we would love to see some sort of a “computational delay” when only a small fraction of energy is spent on proof-of-work computation, while this computation itself introduces a time-delay. We believe that photonics can help us to achieve such a “computational delay”.

I'm surprised Verifiable Delay Functions (VDFs) are not mentioned. There is has been an emerging field of cryptography focused on delays enforced mathematically, called Verifiable Delay Functions, since about 2018. Rather like the technology race of proof-of-work, VDFs rely on the assumption that underlying technology (logic gates, arithmetic units (like in analogue photonics), etc) is somewhat evenly distributed; that nobody has access to a technology that can perform the calculations with much lower delay than everyone else.

VDFs still won't reduce energy consumption if they are used as another form of proof-of-work. For example if running many delay functions calculated in parallel gives a mining advantage, many will be built and together they will use the same amount of energy as proof-of-work. To provide a real energy consumption benefit, the blockchain consensus method needs to change as well. Think "proof-of-verifiable-delay". As far as I know, no such method has been worked out yet.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think widespread institutional adoption of crypto is pretty important in this regard.Operating a photonic miner being hard provides more incentive to be a part of those 'mining' it, as you might expect. So, if it's beyond average user scope but within say .1-1% of a companies budget and could create massive dividends, why shouldn't they invest in this? It can be a little gross to consider, because no ones like idea…

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

This isn't actually true at all. Climate problems are caused by competition between governments and their pursue for growth, which forces everyone to consume and produce more than is necessary. Under the current economic system, natural catastrophe is inevitable. Bitcoin actually fixes this, because it makes it impossible for governments to enforce growth through money supply manipulation, which they have to do to compete with each other.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#26

Public blockchain systems are distributed databases that anyone can submit write transactions to and where you don't need preauthorisation to join the system. In order to avoid the network being taken over by sybil attacks, it's necessary for participation to be based on locking up / committing / consuming something rare. Anything that becomes cheap or easy is not suitable for basing participation on. So far I know o…

One way I've come to think of it is that Sybil resistance comes from having the next block producer chosen by a raffle, with some resource used as the ticket. PoW is an example of the resource being exogenous to the system and PoS is an example of the resource being endogenous.

A problem I see with both is that they are inherently plutocratic, in that the wealthiest participants will have greater economies of scale in the resources they devote to the block production process.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#27

Public blockchain systems are distributed databases that anyone can submit write transactions to and where you don't need preauthorisation to join the system. In order to avoid the network being taken over by sybil attacks, it's necessary for participation to be based on locking up / committing / consuming something rare. Anything that becomes cheap or easy is not suitable for basing participation on. So far I know o…

One way I've come to think of it is that Sybil resistance comes from having the next block producer chosen by a raffle, with some resource used as the ticket. PoW is an example of the resource being exogenous to the system and PoS is an example of the resource being endogenous. A problem I see with both is that they are inherently plutocratic, in that the wealthiest participants will have greater economies of scale i…

This is true, however it's also not an unusual feature - pretty much every capitalist society has the characteristic that those with capital can gain more capital with a minimum of additional work.

Alternatives that don't have that feature to at least some extent would be regarded as very radical, and difficult to implement.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#28
post #24

Heh. I worked on a type of photonic PoW in 2019 (but it wasn't silicon photonics). - It's faster and lower power for the hash rate. It's worth it. But not as fast and low power as hoped. - It's a great advantage for the early adopter who can mine that bit faster than everyone else for a short time. That was the motivation for the project. - Contrary to the title of the article, making hashing faster for less energy d…

One of the most successful implementations of VDFs in crypto right now is Chia, which uses proof of storage space interleaved with proofs of time from VDF servers. There is not an incentive created by the consensus algorithm to have many VDF servers, since only the fastest VDF server participates in block creation.

Also, it alters the PoW economics somewhat by utilizing already-existing general purpose hardware (storage) and has an implementation which does not yet seem susceptible to special purpose hardware attacks (i.e., increasing storage density / decreasing TCO already has a huge bounty)

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#29

Public blockchain systems are distributed databases that anyone can submit write transactions to and where you don't need preauthorisation to join the system. In order to avoid the network being taken over by sybil attacks, it's necessary for participation to be based on locking up / committing / consuming something rare. Anything that becomes cheap or easy is not suitable for basing participation on. So far I know o…

> Ultimately I don't think you can improve matters much by attacking power efficiency of the calculations.

citation

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#30
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

This isn't actually true at all. Climate problems are caused by competition between governments and their pursue for growth, which forces everyone to consume and produce more than is necessary. Under the current economic system, natural catastrophe is inevitable. Bitcoin actually fixes this, because it makes it impossible for governments to enforce growth through money supply manipulation, which they have to do to co…

The current economic system is compatible with a carbon neutral world. We managed to ban all kinds of destructive things that provide (short-term) economic benefits without changing our economic system.
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