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NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

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Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#351

Post by miracle2k »

chinathrow wrote: post #337
highfrequency wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own an NFT, you have the ability to write someone else’s address on a socially recognized ledger of ownership. That is all that matters. If the NFT and the ledger have wide interest, this ability to transfer ownership has value regardless of any legal subtleties.

> If you own an NFT, you have the ability to write someone else’s address on a socially recognized ledger of ownership If that "socially recognized ledger of ownership" ceases to exist, then what?

Either there remains interest and social consensus around this ledger, in which case it can be rebooted on a different network, for example, or even by a centralized party; or maybe you are the only one with an interest in your NFT collection, in which case you can keep a copy of the ledger yourself.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#352

Post by miracle2k »

slg wrote: post #269
jcelerier wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I support NFTs much, but conceptually, how is that different than you buying a Marilyn Monroe from Andy Warhol and him printing the exact same Marilyn Monroe and selling it to someone else ? Hopefully in 2021 everyone would agree that the two are distinct artworks, even if the physical object is exactly the same to the human eye ; that's not what matters when buying art.

Having ownership of the physical print is a pretty big differentiator. I guess you could have always bought that same print from someone who created it illegally rather than Warhol himself, but that is where the vague "supporting the artist" reasoning comes in to play. Since NFTs don't provide that physical object, all that is left is the "supporting the artist" angle. If that is central to NFTs, why is the secondary…

Warhol is dead, yet people still value authorized prints much higher than fakes.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#353

Post by meheleventyone »

paxys wrote: post #325
enlyth wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can sign it with your own private key because you are now the "creator". That's the point of digital assets, they are fungible by definition because it's a bunch of 1s and 0s, doesn't matter which system you run it on you will get an indistinguishable output.

Yet two fully bit-by-bit identical digital assets can have very different social and monetary value based on who stamped their name on it.

Of course for that to work you need an easy way to check who owns a particular wallet so you can verify they did actually stamp their name on it. And quite a lot of NFTs exist without this level of proof hence rampant fraud.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#354

Post by miracle2k »

jljljl wrote: post #264
jcelerier wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I support NFTs much, but conceptually, how is that different than you buying a Marilyn Monroe from Andy Warhol and him printing the exact same Marilyn Monroe and selling it to someone else ? Hopefully in 2021 everyone would agree that the two are distinct artworks, even if the physical object is exactly the same to the human eye ; that's not what matters when buying art.

The Marilyn Monroes are still limited by the number that Warhol prints, and you have ownership of the print that you bought. Maybe it’s not as valuable as it would be if there was only 1 Monroe print, but you are paying for a physical object made by Warhol. If I understand correctly, an NFT is like if someone, not necessarily Warhol himself, sold you a note posted on a wall somewhere that said “You own Andy Warhol’s…

> If I understand correctly, an NFT is like if someone, not necessarily Warhol himself.

No, the point is that the NFT is from the artist themselves.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#355

Post by thefr0g »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #329
paxys wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nothing in the NFT itself betrays that it wasn't issued by the real Techno Viking This part is incorrect. Every token is signed can be verified against the content creator's public key. You can absolutely verify a "genuine" NFT.

So, are artists suddenly getting in on pgp key-signing parties to establish a web of trust, or is the public key of the artist really just a key claiming to be that of the artist? What is to stop me from buying "bank.se", "banksy.me" and "banksy.io," and actioning off three different NFTs (of three different digital representations of the same street art) to different online art communities? What is to stop someone w…

> What is to stop someone who MITM's the artist's webpage from selling NFTs on their behalf?

I guess anti-fraud laws… Also, to my disappointment, someone already got banksy.io :D

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#358

Post by miracle2k »

jayd16 wrote: post #318
paxys wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well blockchains aren't trying to solve the digital identity problem. Artists can share their public key however they like.

Then its left as an exercise for the user to actually verify the authenticity.

Sure, but if Warhol had each of his prints signed with an unforgeable signature akin to a private key, while we still have to know what is private key was, the Warhol Authentication Board wouldn't have been in the mess that it was in.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#359

Post by PeterisP »

WA wrote: post #340
highfrequency wrote: post #311

There’s a lot of confusion here about why NFTs are valuable if the buyer doesn’t get to own the image copyright. This should not feel mysterious - NFTs are just like baseball cards. If you buy a Barry Bonds baseball card for $1,000, you don’t own the artistic rights to the image on the card. All you own is the card itself, which has negligible manufacturing cost. It would be trivial for any card company to produce a…

NFTs are not like baseball cards. NFTs are a JSON string on a proprietary entity that point to the image of a baseball card. The image can be viewed by everyone. The bragging rights of owning a JSON string depend heavily on whether or not the proprietary entity will become the dominant player in the I own a JSON string -world. This also has zero to do with blockchains. The proprietary entity could've used any databas…

" The bragging rights of owning a JSON string depend heavily on whether or not the proprietary entity will become the dominant player in the I own a JSON string-world." -> as the parent post explains, this particular aspect is exactly like baseball cards; where technically anyone could print other Barry Bonds cards but your bragging rights of owning a rare baseball card depend heavily on whether or not the proprietary entity printing those particular cards will be the dominant player in the baseball card world.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#360

Post by zimpenfish »

deepsun wrote: post #327
flarg wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but what else can you do with digital art? Buy the PC it's sitting on and only share it via webcam of the screen?

The same as with any other intellectual property (books, movies, songs): buy the legally enforceable copyright. As in "right" and "copy". PS: I'm immensely interested in the process of creating a digital image. It's actually pretty tricky and technical, to apply all those filters in right order and with right settings. I would buy a recording of how the digital art was created.

Not a recording but a deconstruction of the process of creating a digital image - https://rjp.is/blogging/posts/deconstructing-an-image-2/
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