161–170 of 243 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a kid, I loved the monarch migration that came through our mountain community. Thousands and thousands of them. Then hundreds. Then dozens. Then lucky to see a single one.
I see so many monarchs Then man fails his role No longer do I see them
Rachael: "Of course it is."
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That's not really a fair comparison/ justification. I don't know how much "warning" was given for the endangered species act, or if that even matters, since land that's about to be worthless is already worthless. Also, I have no idea what actually happened in this case. But to speculate/generalize: IBW were already (obviously) extremely rare in 1944, so there would have been an intense amount of pressure preventing h…
Also, I have no idea what actually happened in this case. But to speculate/generalize: Your argument would have more weight if you'd give facts instead of speculating what could have happened. What actually did happen?
40 years later a NWR was established on the land.
https://www.fws.gov/ivorybill/pdf/IBW%20Singer%20Tract%20Fac...
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> What if it’s some pesticide? or some food packaging or something What if it was? I don't expect things to change much with corporate's death grip on the government.
> I don't expect things to change much with corporate's death grip on the government. Statements like this always imply that if the government ran the businesses (socialism) things like this wouldn't happen. But the evidence is it is worse . The USSR had major problems with their heavily polluting industries, which persist today.
There is a world of difference between Social Democratic (i.e. socialism) countries like Finland, Sweden, Norway for example and the USSR.
The hint is right there in the title, democratic.
The USSR never had a functioning democracy.
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The Ivory Billed Woodpecker hasn't had a confirmed sighting since 1944. Lots of these species have been long gone. But the landowner of that 1944 sighting probably couldn't turn over a rock on his property without fines and lawsuits coming at him, at least until now. ETA: If I'm remembering the stories right, either the last or one of the very last IBW sightings was doubted by officials, because the guy was a farmer…
There's also the perverse incentives of developers and farmers not wanting endangered species to be "discovered" on their property because of the restrictions that will incur. But what gets really interesting is re-introduction of endangered species, like with sandhill cranes being re-introduced to Louisiana (transplants from other surviving populations). Is government introduction of an endangered species on/near pr…
I'm not sure that's really a "perverse incentive".
By hiding, destroying, or not reporting the endangered species, they're going to develop the land and harm the species.
But if there were no endangered species act making them afraid of the endangered species being discovered, they'd have just developed the land anyway, so the end result is the same. But at least with the endangered species act, they face some legal repercussion if they are caught harming an endangered species.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not really a fair comparison/ justification. I don't know how much "warning" was given for the endangered species act, or if that even matters, since land that's about to be worthless is already worthless. Also, I have no idea what actually happened in this case. But to speculate/generalize: IBW were already (obviously) extremely rare in 1944, so there would have been an intense amount of pressure preventing h…
Also, I have no idea what actually happened in this case. But to speculate/generalize: Your argument would have more weight if you'd give facts instead of speculating what could have happened. What actually did happen?
Landowner discovers he has an endangered species, reports it, gets rewarded by having his property restricted, endangered species moves on (or dies), and restrictions remain indefinitely.
Or landowner doesn't report it, "disappears" the animals, and uses it or sells it while it still has value.
Sounds like in this case, it somehow managed to be a bit of both of those.
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Also, I have no idea what actually happened in this case. But to speculate/generalize: Your argument would have more weight if you'd give facts instead of speculating what could have happened. What actually did happen?
I was curious what actually happened so looked it up -- looks like conservancy groups tried (and failed) to purchase the land to preserve it, and the land was logged despite the presence of the known endangered bird: "Eckelberry also saw the logging that cut down the trees used by the last Ivory-billed woodpecker" 40 years later a NWR was established on the land. https://www.fws.gov/ivorybill/pdf/IBW%20Singer%20Tract…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's also the perverse incentives of developers and farmers not wanting endangered species to be "discovered" on their property because of the restrictions that will incur. But what gets really interesting is re-introduction of endangered species, like with sandhill cranes being re-introduced to Louisiana (transplants from other surviving populations). Is government introduction of an endangered species on/near pr…
There's also the perverse incentives of developers and farmers not wanting endangered species to be "discovered" on their property because of the restrictions that will incur. I'm not sure that's really a "perverse incentive". By hiding, destroying, or not reporting the endangered species, they're going to develop the land and harm the species. But if there were no endangered species act making them afraid of the end…
The only fix I can see is making it a worthwhile rational decision: incentives for reporting endangered animals that are worth more than the value in developing the property. But that has it's own pitfalls and potentials for abuse.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was curious what actually happened so looked it up -- looks like conservancy groups tried (and failed) to purchase the land to preserve it, and the land was logged despite the presence of the known endangered bird: "Eckelberry also saw the logging that cut down the trees used by the last Ivory-billed woodpecker" 40 years later a NWR was established on the land. https://www.fws.gov/ivorybill/pdf/IBW%20Singer%20Tract…
So, just to confirm: he did what he wanted with the land, and other than attempting to purchase the land from him and being declined, nobody interfered with his use of his land?
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You're never going to get money out of politics. Even in the Soviet Union. Do you really think the Soviet Union did not have endemic corruption in government? Here in Seattle, the Council created "democracy vouchers" paid by the taxpayer to give to the candidate of their choice. What it really is is the incumbents using taxpayer money to fund their campaigns. If you're not an incumbent, good luck getting any of those…
>Do you really think the Soviet Union did not have endemic corruption in government? Literally no one thinks that or implied it in this conversation. What a non sequitur. I don't think you're even properly reading the comments you reply to.