U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#101

Post by voldacar » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #96

titzer wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that the switch from whale oil to petroleum caused a massive, orders of magnitude increase in human footprint and ecological destruction? Had we not discovered petroleum, or had it not been there, human civilization would have plateaued or even declined, right after the extinction of these beautiful animals, because we would have absolutely hunted them to extinction unless they were protected. We would…

The extinction of animals caused by humans has been ongoing and increasing since the stone age. There's no way that not having petroleum would have stopped it. > this planet has finite resources No matter is being destroyed or is escaping the planet, aside from a solar system probe now and then. Energy can repurpose and reconfigure existing resources.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that this planet has finite entropy

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#102

Post by kevmo » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

efitz wrote: post #74

I am probably just a horrible person, but I just don’t care about the extinction of such specific species. Often a member of one species is practically impossible to tell from a member of a different species save for where the individual was found. I care a lot more if “crows” are endangered than if “efitz’ southeastern marble crested crow” is endangered. [ed: spelling] Also, I suspect that such narrowly defined spec…

It is true that some sub-species are always going extinct.

That said, we're in the middle of a man-made mass extinction event.

Scientists and systems thinkers have been warning about ecological collapse, particularly in the oceans.

I recommend you start caring.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#103

Post by inglor_cz » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

openasocket wrote: post #84

inter_netuser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come they don’t investigate WHAT is actually causing this exactly? Yes climate is changing but did it change that much since 80s? What if it’s some pesticide? or some food packaging or something

In the case of the ivory-billed woodpecker it was probably extinct in the 80s too. There hasn't been a universally accepted sighting of one since 1944, the few sightings made since then aren't really conclusive. For most of these creatures they only existed in one particularly small region or area. The San Marcos gambusia, for instance, historically only lived in a single 1km stretch of the San Marcos River. Species…

This fish lives in a single rock hole in Nevada. Fewer than 200 individuals alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devils_Hole_pupfish

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#104

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

ogaitnas wrote: post #100

efitz wrote: post #74

I am probably just a horrible person, but I just don’t care about the extinction of such specific species. Often a member of one species is practically impossible to tell from a member of a different species save for where the individual was found. I care a lot more if “crows” are endangered than if “efitz’ southeastern marble crested crow” is endangered. [ed: spelling] Also, I suspect that such narrowly defined spec…

This is the type of proud indifference that is going to lead us down the path of no return in no time. The world is not made better by shrinking biodiversity especially in the long term. But screw posterity right? I hope you don't have kids.

Personal attacks do not belong on hacker news.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#105

Post by beerandt » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

openasocket wrote: post #84

inter_netuser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come they don’t investigate WHAT is actually causing this exactly? Yes climate is changing but did it change that much since 80s? What if it’s some pesticide? or some food packaging or something

In the case of the ivory-billed woodpecker it was probably extinct in the 80s too. There hasn't been a universally accepted sighting of one since 1944, the few sightings made since then aren't really conclusive. For most of these creatures they only existed in one particularly small region or area. The San Marcos gambusia, for instance, historically only lived in a single 1km stretch of the San Marcos River. Species…

Hawaii had iirc 14 species of birds on the list that were all native to either one island or a portion of one, with some preferring certain altitudes or only living on certain plateaus, etc.

The funny thing about Hawaii though, is that there are only two or three (extremely isolated) places that remain with any true Hawaiian plant habitat, because Polynesians brought their own plants with them that almost universally outcompeted the native plants.

Birds on islands are some of the quickest animals to specialize and differentiate into new species.

Which makes Hawaii incredibly interesting, from an island biogeography perspective.

Something as simple as the fact that no mosquitos made it to Hawaii until Captain Cook accidently introduced them, means no native fish, frogs, birds, lizards, or anything that specialized in eating them.

Now extrapolate that to wiping out all the native flora and replacing it.

That so much biodiversity remains in Hawaii today ought to actually give us some comfort in nature's ability to quickly adapt to significant change.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#106

Post by sethammons » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:38 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #69

mhalle wrote: post #35

Well know species, such as the Monarch butterfly, are candidates for extinction, but don't make it to the list because other species are "higher priority": https://www.fws.gov/savethemonarch/ssa.html

As a kid, I loved the monarch migration that came through our mountain community. Thousands and thousands of them. Then hundreds. Then dozens. Then lucky to see a single one.

I see so many monarchs

Then man fails his role

No longer do I see them

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#107

Post by TheChaplain » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

This is just the beginning I believe.

20 years ago we were 6bn humans, today we are very close to 8bn and in a little more than 20 years ahead we are 10bn.

It's an alarming growth rate, and considering how much each person use resources and produce waste during their lifetime, I'd say we are looking at quite a bit more extinct species in the future.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#108

Post by AlwaysRock » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

There are far less bugs than there were 50+ years ago. Without bugs birds and other small animals have to struggle more to eat. Work that all the way up the food chain. Its very sad and it will only get worse.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#109

Post by AlwaysRock » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

inter_netuser wrote: post #10

_gmnw wrote: post #4

This is super depressing, it's crazy to see how much the flora/fauna have changed locally in my lifetime. It makes me wonder how much worse it actually is. Is looks like most of these were initially listed in the 80s, not too long after Endangered Species Act passed. Is there some sort of time limit before they officially declare something extinct?

How come they don’t investigate WHAT is actually causing this exactly? Yes climate is changing but did it change that much since 80s? What if it’s some pesticide? or some food packaging or something

It's absolutely changed that much in since the 80s. For humans? Not that much. For tiny animals and bugs? Small change is massive change.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#110

Post by BitwiseFool » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

_gmnw wrote: post #95

BitwiseFool wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't trying to imply we can just "let it be" because we can undo it later. I actually follow Hawaiian Ecosystem conservation and I do what little I can to help. But I understand where you are coming from. Simply consider my original post hopium.

Sorry I wasn't trying to downplay your response, I agree it is the only hope we can actually have these days. It's awesome that you are giving back though, Hawaii has got to be a really fascinating and challenging case study for conservation vs. consumerism.

>"Hawaii has got to be a really fascinating and challenging case study for conservation vs. consumerism."

Indeed, and it is actually something I personally struggle with. The situation is actually much more dire than people realize. I myself am actually part Native Hawaiian and it is so disheartening to see fellow locals actively protest conservation measures. I do what I can to testify in public meetings but local pushback on things like ungulate eradication or land use laws are intense.

I don't want to dismiss them entirely because the concerns come from a real place, but those reasons are all economic in nature. And, you end up in the unenviable position of being a relatively privileged person telling a disadvantaged community they can't have the economic advancement they want. It is genuinely difficult.