On Sparta by Plutarch is an amazing book about the Spartan civilization
Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
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Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#12I don't understand the point of the article. In quantitative terms one can say that Y was better than X. Like: Usa in the 20th century was better at creating technology. Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing? It's not discimination or racism or whatever. I think it's because in modern times saying Y is better than X is bad. Except for in s…
>Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing? It's a popular trope, and it's not true.
Well I am Greek and had read a lot of stuff also at school about it. In ancient Greece they were considered as such. How do you know it's a trope? Statistical data?
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#13Or, much less than an army of super warriors. They did not win more battles than their rivals. I think of them as Greece's FARC, distinguished mainly by their abuse of their own children and everyone they depended on for their own survival.
Do you have a source that dives more into this? Specifically breaking down how they weren't actually more effective, contrary to what might be considered common belief.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28711149
Specifically, part VI and VII of that series.
> In short: Sparta’s overall military performance is profoundly average over the Classical period. They don’t even manage a winning record!
> It is hard to avoid the conclusion that while Spartan tactics may have been modestly better than most other Greek states, Spartan operations were dismal, placing severe limits on how effectively the Spartan army could be utilized.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#14Or, much less than an army of super warriors. They did not win more battles than their rivals. I think of them as Greece's FARC, distinguished mainly by their abuse of their own children and everyone they depended on for their own survival.
Do you have a source that dives more into this? Specifically breaking down how they weren't actually more effective, contrary to what might be considered common belief.
A sister comment linked to this wonderful takedown of the brutal misery that was Sparta
https://acoup.blog/2019/08/16/collections-this-isnt-sparta-p...
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#15I was surprised to learn spartan society had pedophilia built in similar to a mentor system. Will Durant wrote about it, but I never hear anything in pop culture except the warrior bit.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing? It's a popular trope, and it's not true.
Well I am Greek and had read a lot of stuff also at school about it. In ancient Greece they were considered as such. How do you know it's a trope? Statistical data?
Yes, statistical analysis of their victories and defeats. It's an excellent book. I'd recommend it.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#17[deleted]
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#18I was surprised to learn spartan society had pedophilia built in similar to a mentor system. Will Durant wrote about it, but I never hear anything in pop culture except the warrior bit.
Wasn't that all of ancient Grece?
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#19The Spartans had a good marketing and merchandising department.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I am Greek and had read a lot of stuff also at school about it. In ancient Greece they were considered as such. How do you know it's a trope? Statistical data?
Yes, statistical analysis of their victories and defeats. It's an excellent book. I'd recommend it.
Are the battle outcomes fair comparisons? What if they had great warriors but poor decision makers? Could they have fought poorly matched battles for the sake of conserving resources, etc?
I don’t care about Sparta one way or another. But simply “looking at numbers” can be deceiving.