Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
smithsonianmag.com
Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
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Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#2I think a big thing people miss with the Spartans is that they didn't see themselves as the ideal warriors, they saw themselves as the ideal Greek citizens. Part of that was being a warrior, just as part of being a citizen in Athens was doing your military service. But because of the enforced equality among the (slave and land owning) citizen class, they were all expected to serve in the same manner and have time for poetry, hunting, and the other activities that a proper Greek citizen should do.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#3If you like this there's a meaty seven part blog series by historian Bret Devereaux about the mythology surrounding Sparta. It offers an account of what Sparta and the Spartan military was really like as well as how the Spartan mythos evolved.
https://acoup.blog/2019/08/16/collections-this-isnt-sparta-p...
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#4I think a big thing people miss with the Spartans is that they didn't see themselves as the ideal warriors, they saw themselves as the ideal Greek citizens. Part of that was being a warrior, just as part of being a citizen in Athens was doing your military service. But because of the enforced equality among the (slave and land owning) citizen class, they were all expected to serve in the same manner and have time for…
That’s really more of a myth than reality. If you read actual reports of Spartan self reported history, they always report that they were equal in some mythical past, not that they are equal in the author’s current time.
In reality there were pretty severe socio-economic differences even among the slave holding citizen class. The equality among the citizens is really propaganda, not reality.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#5Or, much less than an army of super warriors. They did not win more battles than their rivals. I think of them as Greece's FARC, distinguished mainly by their abuse of their own children and everyone they depended on for their own survival.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#6I don't understand the point of the article. In quantitative terms one can say that Y was better than X. Like: Usa in the 20th century was better at creating technology. Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing? It's not discimination or racism or whatever. I think it's because in modern times saying Y is better than X is bad. Except for in sports. Weird.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#7I think a big thing people miss with the Spartans is that they didn't see themselves as the ideal warriors, they saw themselves as the ideal Greek citizens. Part of that was being a warrior, just as part of being a citizen in Athens was doing your military service. But because of the enforced equality among the (slave and land owning) citizen class, they were all expected to serve in the same manner and have time for…
That’s really more of a myth than reality. If you read actual reports of Spartan self reported history, they always report that they were equal in some mythical past, not that they are equal in the author’s current time. In reality there were pretty severe socio-economic differences even among the slave holding citizen class. The equality among the citizens is really propaganda, not reality.
Sure that's true. I just think the military aspect of it is what gets focused on to the exclusion of everything else.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#8Or, much less than an army of super warriors. They did not win more battles than their rivals. I think of them as Greece's FARC, distinguished mainly by their abuse of their own children and everyone they depended on for their own survival.
Do you have a source that dives more into this? Specifically breaking down how they weren't actually more effective, contrary to what might be considered common belief.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#9This reminds me of my relatively new pet peeve when watching any military element in a movie. Every time they gather in a room, the soldiers arrange themselves at attention as scenery. I get that it's mostly symbolic of how organized and dedicated they are, but having been in the military, the last thing a soldier is looking to do is stand at attention.
Movie soldiery (wide term to include knights, personal bodyguards, etc...) have this innate knowledge on how to form ranks and break ranks in perfect unison with no commands.
The professional military is relatively rare throughout history, but is somehow idealized and projected onto those factions which did well militarily. Realistically the Spartans only had to be a little better man for man than those around them in order to be the best in the world.
Re: Sparta was more than an army of super warriors
#10I don't understand the point of the article. In quantitative terms one can say that Y was better than X. Like: Usa in the 20th century was better at creating technology. Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing? It's not discimination or racism or whatever. I think it's because in modern times saying Y is better than X is bad. Except for in s…
>Why does the author need to emphasize that Spartans were no better than other Greeks as warriors as it's a bad thing?
It's a popular trope, and it's not true.