Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What if it’s some pesticide? or some food packaging or something What if it was? I don't expect things to change much with corporate's death grip on the government.
> I don't expect things to change much with corporate's death grip on the government. Statements like this always imply that if the government ran the businesses (socialism) things like this wouldn't happen. But the evidence is it is worse . The USSR had major problems with their heavily polluting industries, which persist today.
U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
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Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#62'Exhaustive'? They may have been exhaust ing (!) but can you really ever search exhaustively for a species?
At the very very least, "exhaustive" and "exhausting" are potential synonyms. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/exhaustive#Adjective I'd argue that definition 2 is also a decent fit, and definition 1 is acceptable if you permit mild hyperbole. (Which I'd advise doing, as mild hyperbole is more-or-less the default register of Standard American English.)
Well as a speaker of British English, I suppose that's where I fell down.
They're very much not synonyms as far as I'm concerned, my 'exhausting' was a joke, being 'very tiring, causing exhaustion' vs. the 'every possible element, comprehensive' from your Wiktionary link for 'exhaustive'.
You can't possibly check everywhere. I don't say that out of some sort of extinction denial! I assume there are standards in the field for time since sighting over certain number of known habitats or percentage coverage of land or whatever that indicates extinction.
I just wouldn't call that 'after exhaustive search', personally. 'Extensive', sure. 'Sufficient to meet criteria for extinction' is what matters.
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Comments like that suggest no such thing. There is plenty of middle ground, including restrictions on corporate election donations, and generally limiting corporate lobbyists access to our legislators.
Again, you're saying government control won't have these problems. Socialist governments produced tremendous environmental problems because even though the government consisted solely of altruistic, self-sacrificing, dedicated, incorruptible administrators, the people still needed food, clothing, and washing machines. And the government would try to provide them, rather than face mass starvation.
Thoughts and prayers, ivory-billed woodpecker, thoughts and prayers.
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
This completely overlooks the desires of the people that want the products the company provides at a reasonable price. This is not going away, regardless of how you structure things. People like to eat food and use washing machines. The notion that profit is the root of the problem is implying that removing the profit will resolve it. History shows that this never works. Socialism produces more environmental degradat…
I don’t know why you keep bringing up socialism. My point is that corporate lobbying and donations should be restricted, not that free market businesses shouldn’t exist. There is a broad, non-linear spectrum between socialism and unrestricted corporate influence on government.
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
This completely overlooks the desires of the people that want the products the company provides at a reasonable price. This is not going away, regardless of how you structure things. People like to eat food and use washing machines. The notion that profit is the root of the problem is implying that removing the profit will resolve it. History shows that this never works. Socialism produces more environmental degradat…
I don’t know why you keep bringing up socialism. My point is that corporate lobbying and donations should be restricted, not that free market businesses shouldn’t exist. There is a broad, non-linear spectrum between socialism and unrestricted corporate influence on government.
Your notion that absent corporate lobbying, government control would work out in the best interests of everybody is utterly without foundation.
Your complaint about the profit motive being the root of evil also implies that without profit, things would be better. Without profit has been repeatedly tried. It never produces better results.
My father grew up a socialist. Then he joined the military, and spent years living on military bases. There is zero profit motive on a military base. But there was no end of ridiculous problems, enormous waste, glacial bureaucracy, etc. This thoroughly disabused him of his socialist notions.
For one small example, on a new base, furniture for the base housing had to be supplied. The base commander delegated the selection of furniture to his wife (men rarely care about these things). She picked all the furniture, confident in how great her taste was and what a big favor she was doing to the ignorant masses on base.
The servicemens' wives all hated that furniture. My dad would always have a huge laugh at how much they loathed it.
P.S. When my parents got married, my mom hated all of his furniture. He had to buy all new stuff to her specifications.
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#66It would be cool to see a list of all the species that have recovered from near extinction in the last 50 years. (Just to balance out the doom) Off the top of my head: bald eagles, other birds of prey?, various whale species, what else?
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
How come they don’t investigate WHAT is actually causing this exactly? Yes climate is changing but did it change that much since 80s? What if it’s some pesticide? or some food packaging or something
From the article it sounds like invasive species, plus the fact that we have royally screwed up the local ecosystem. For instance — white-tailed deer are growing exponentially, eating all the underbrush and outcompeting other animals, and they have no/few natural predators left. I agree that not much has changed since the 80s, I think it's just catching up to us now.
Humans have ruined a lot of ecosystems that had a natural balance. Wolf culling being one of the most obvious examples of our cause and effect.
https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wildlife/wolf-r...
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
How come they don’t investigate WHAT is actually causing this exactly? Yes climate is changing but did it change that much since 80s? What if it’s some pesticide? or some food packaging or something
From the article it sounds like invasive species, plus the fact that we have royally screwed up the local ecosystem. For instance — white-tailed deer are growing exponentially, eating all the underbrush and outcompeting other animals, and they have no/few natural predators left. I agree that not much has changed since the 80s, I think it's just catching up to us now.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-tailed_deer#Population_a...
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#69Well know species, such as the Monarch butterfly, are candidates for extinction, but don't make it to the list because other species are "higher priority": https://www.fws.gov/savethemonarch/ssa.html
Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches
#70I like to think that the Hawaiian practice of using native bird feathers for large and elaborate cloaks might let us pursue de-extinction through DNA extraction and cloning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BBAhu_%CA%BBula Just think about how many individual birds' feathers contributed towards making these. And we know plenty of the yellow feathers are from the Kauaʻi ʻōʻō bird which was declared extinct. The Kauaʻ…
I love that the answer is always more technology will save us. Whether it's carbon removal advances or cloning, we just look towards future advancements instead of cleaning up our act. I understand that expecting some sort of big shift in how we live is not feasible, it's just a shame.