U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#51

Post by murphyslab » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #24

'Exhaustive'? They may have been exhaust ing (!) but can you really ever search exhaustively for a species?

Tens of thousands of naturalists (e.g. birders) have been looking for evidence for decades. It's a pretty wide net, particularly with citizen science platforms such as iNaturalist and eBird.

As for whether it's possible, I would say yes. Environmental DNA (eDNA) sampling can be used to see if a particular species is present even if you don't visually or audibly observe the species:

> eDNA is increasingly being used for biosurveillance, species occupancy studies, and the detection of endangered and invasive species, particularly in aquatic ecosystems [0]

There's a very recent paper that has demonstrated that animal DNA can be obtained from the air and used to identify animals present in a given space. [0]

> Clare set up vacuum pumps with filters in 20 locations in Hamerton Zoo Park and let each run for 30 minutes. [...] The team identified 17 species kept at the zoo and others living near and around it, such as hedgehogs and deer. Some zoo animal DNA was found nearly 300 meters from the animals' enclosures. She also detected airborne DNA likely from the meat of chicken, pig, cow, and horse fed to captive predators indoors. [1]

In the near future we'll probably see fairly widespread use of this kind of tech in the search for rare and evasive species.

[0] : https://peerj.com/articles/11030/

[1] : https://www.science.org/news/2021/07/dna-pulled-thin-air-ide...

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#52

Post by BitwiseFool » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

BrianOnHN wrote: post #22

Some comments mentions bringing back species. Well, how would you like to return to a home that is no longer hospitable? Just awful.

I guarantee you that when the technology exists to bring back some of these species via cloning or genetic engineering, they will have some habitat restored once they are ready to re-introduce them. Otherwise it would be a complete waste of time and money.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#53

Post by jrwoodruff » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

shakezula wrote: post #17

Someday we’re going to hit the cascade point, where we’ve simultaneously and severely damaged or disrupted so many ecosystems that they won’t be able to recover and it all just collapses.

Great thing is, we probably won't know what that point is until we've past it.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#54

Post by dmkolobov » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #40

dmkolobov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like that suggest no such thing. There is plenty of middle ground, including restrictions on corporate election donations, and generally limiting corporate lobbyists access to our legislators.

Again, you're saying government control won't have these problems. Socialist governments produced tremendous environmental problems because even though the government consisted solely of altruistic, self-sacrificing, dedicated, incorruptible administrators, the people still needed food, clothing, and washing machines. And the government would try to provide them, rather than face mass starvation.

And speaking from a Russian perspective, your assertion that anyone in the USSR viewed their officials as self-sacrificing and altruistic is quite frankly hilarious.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#55

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

dmkolobov wrote: post #46

WalterBright wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you're saying government control won't have these problems. Socialist governments produced tremendous environmental problems because even though the government consisted solely of altruistic, self-sacrificing, dedicated, incorruptible administrators, the people still needed food, clothing, and washing machines. And the government would try to provide them, rather than face mass starvation.

No, I am not. I am saying corporate interests are not aligned with those of the people at large, they are aligned exclusively with those of their shareholders. I do not want my country’s laws to reflect a small group’s desires to make money.

This completely overlooks the desires of the people that want the products the company provides at a reasonable price. This is not going away, regardless of how you structure things. People like to eat food and use washing machines.

The notion that profit is the root of the problem is implying that removing the profit will resolve it. History shows that this never works.

Socialism produces more environmental degradation, because it cannot produce things as efficiently as free market businesses can. So, to make up the gap, they pay little attention to the environment.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#56

Post by agilob » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #52

BrianOnHN wrote: post #22

Some comments mentions bringing back species. Well, how would you like to return to a home that is no longer hospitable? Just awful.

I guarantee you that when the technology exists to bring back some of these species via cloning or genetic engineering, they will have some habitat restored once they are ready to re-introduce them. Otherwise it would be a complete waste of time and money.

I think the comment it more about what if we have technology but no space for resurrected species?

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#57

Post by dmkolobov » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:43 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #55

dmkolobov wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am not. I am saying corporate interests are not aligned with those of the people at large, they are aligned exclusively with those of their shareholders. I do not want my country’s laws to reflect a small group’s desires to make money.

This completely overlooks the desires of the people that want the products the company provides at a reasonable price. This is not going away, regardless of how you structure things. People like to eat food and use washing machines. The notion that profit is the root of the problem is implying that removing the profit will resolve it. History shows that this never works. Socialism produces more environmental degradat…

I don’t know why you keep bringing up socialism. My point is that corporate lobbying and donations should be restricted, not that free market businesses shouldn’t exist.

There is a broad, non-linear spectrum between socialism and unrestricted corporate influence on government.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#58

Post by mrfusion » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:43 PM UTC

It would be cool to see a list of all the species that have recovered from near extinction in the last 50 years. (Just to balance out the doom)

Off the top of my head: bald eagles, other birds of prey?, various whale species, what else?

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#59

Post by BitwiseFool » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

mdni007 wrote: post #20

I have a flat pigtoe in my aquarium. What should I do?

How did you acquire it? Have you had it for a long time and are you certain it is really a flat pigtoe? Don't let any doubt stop you from reaching out, though. It would be a shame otherwise.

Re: U.S. declares more than 20 species extinct after exhaustive searches

#60

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

dmkolobov wrote: post #54

WalterBright wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you're saying government control won't have these problems. Socialist governments produced tremendous environmental problems because even though the government consisted solely of altruistic, self-sacrificing, dedicated, incorruptible administrators, the people still needed food, clothing, and washing machines. And the government would try to provide them, rather than face mass starvation.

And speaking from a Russian perspective, your assertion that anyone in the USSR viewed their officials as self-sacrificing and altruistic is quite frankly hilarious.

I have friends who grew up in the Soviet bloc. I once witnessed a hilarious conversation between one of them and another friend who was a committed socialist (I don't de-friend people because of their politics). My socialist friend would say "X under socialism would be better". The other would say "I lived under socialism, and here's how and why X was worse." Socialist would say "but that won't happen under socialism". The other would say "you have zero experience with this, I lived under it. You have no idea what you are talking about."

The back and forth like this would go on for a while.