Jesus an SF Muni pass costs $1176 per year and doesn't even get you out of the city of San Francisco.
That’s similar to what it would cost in Boston without commuter rail. I assume NYC is at least as much.
Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
231–240 of 299 posts
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#232Why should public transport cost anything at all? I mean, what's the point? You might say the service costs money. It does. The ticket prices never cover that so you're already running at a loss. You spend money on enforcement, payment and ticket machines and you reduce usage of the service. But here's the more important point: cars are already subsidized to a huge degree pretty much everywhere through roads, parking…
Because people don't value free things. It's why public restrooms are always disgusting.
I remember having an electric car when they were new.
Some places offered free electric car charging, and there was always someone parked there abusing it.
Meanwhile with only the most nominal cost, people would make better use of the resource allowing it to become available to others.
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#233All public transport in Lombardy, Italy for 1039 Euro/y:
https://www.regione.lombardia.it/wps/portal/istituzionale/HP...
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
I like this idea better than most local government UBI proposals. E.g., instead of suggesting UBI in NYC just make the trains free. It's not straight currency but it's unlimited transportation on high capacity, environmentally nice(r) systems. Then people can argue over who can make the experience nicer vs who is going to raise the fares. Ridership-wise, many heavy users already have unlimited cards. (Still, however,…
That and free education and dare we mention the topic - free health care. Then we don't need UBI.
Well, and free housing and food. Possibly clothes. And some modicum of entertainment. Then we don't need UBI.
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#235Next stop: Just make public transport free for all reasonably permanent residents (for example, you could get a free ticket for next year when you file your taxes). Anyone who rides public transport instead of expensive and polluting cars is doing a service for the environment.
If I were a homeless person, that would be great -- just get a seat on a warm, heated train, and I have a bathroom to shower in any time I want!
It's almost my situation.
For 1039 Euro/y I can access all public transport in Lombardy, Italy.
Train is my 'office': warm heated place, bathroom, wi-fi, 220V for my old PC :)
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
San Francisco city council voted in favor of making public transit free, even Muni was on board. Total cost was something like $20 million a year (city budget is measured in the Billions) to get rid of fares completely, forever. That happened about two months ago. Mayor vetoed it, on the grounds that "it would be too popular and overtax muni's capacity". I'm not sure I buy that, my guess is that the local tour bus/to…
God, that's so infuriating, particularly given that for many people I know, the concern with Muni/BART is that it's oftentimes too empty , which can be a little freaky particularly as a woman.
This would not cover BART, which is not an SF run system. It would not cover SAMTRANS. This is just SF muni (busses and a handful of trolley lines) -- I think trolleys also were excluded as these are for raising money from tourists.
Honestly they rarely bother even to ask for fares. The problem with SF Muni is that the buses are dirty, smelly, and travel along at an average speed of about 8 miles per hour. This, combined with the fact that the buses always appear at random times and can never be ontime creates a very unpleasant experience that is only marginally better than walking.
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
San Francisco city council voted in favor of making public transit free, even Muni was on board. Total cost was something like $20 million a year (city budget is measured in the Billions) to get rid of fares completely, forever. That happened about two months ago. Mayor vetoed it, on the grounds that "it would be too popular and overtax muni's capacity". I'm not sure I buy that, my guess is that the local tour bus/to…
It would have turned buses into homeless housing.
This is already a problem as the homeless just don't pay and no one forces them to pay. Actually you can hop on the muni today and no one will force you to pay either.
But it might have exacerbated the problem.
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would indeed cut quite a cost (monetary and environmental) due to barriers, tickets, validation machines, selling points, controllers...
I don‘t think the cost is so high here, we have covert ticket inspectors, none of those fancy electric gates.
Fully unionized with a (publicly funded) pension?
Ass soon as you see a human it costs a fortune.
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
why would you keep people from doing that? are so many people going to be doing that as to actually cause a problem?
In my area people will ride the commuter train (without paying) for hours and sleep on it. There isn't enough fair enforcement or will to remove them. Makes the train pretty unattractive for its actual purpose. I imagine that issue becoming even worse if it's just free.
People do that in my city too — they're homeless people who don't have anywhere else to go. The solution is to give them housing and jobs. Until that happens, I'm okay with them sleeping on the train if they need to.
Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y
#240When the San Francisco Bay Area tried to move to a single means of payment, a digital card Transit-Link or whatnot, it was delayed more than a year by BART due to arguements over who holds the cash payments from ticket sales, and when those funds are released, exactly. The funding of MUNI, BART, Alameda County Transit and others, have different histories and cash control, so they fought about it. source: public news…
They are different systems. Bart is a regional transport agency funded by ticket sales and sales taxes in the Northern CA bay area. SF has regional bus lines but a few bart stops. SamTrans is the San Mateo bus system but they go all the way to Marin County and have a few stops in SF. Caltrain is a completely separate agency and funding unit that runs down the peninsula but also has two stops in SF.
You can say they should all be consolidated but these are overlapping areas - BART can't have SF running it in the one area, Oakland running it in another area, etc. So consolidation means moving upward -- e.g. the state of California would run it. But no one wants to lose local control of services they are funding. Why would the city of SF cede control of its bus system to the state? So the control is where the funding is, and you have these overlapping and competing transit lines, all of which operate in San Francisco, but do not accept each other's ticket or payment systems.