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Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

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Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#211

Post by Tijdreiziger »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #91
southerntofu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One price for the whole family Why not make it free? It's a public service after all, and it's hard to "abuse" transportation like one can use "too much" free water/electricity.

Most public transit systems are already bankrupt and have to be propped up by taxes collected from other services. Making it free will most likely not increase ridership and will almost definitely make the quality of service lower.

> Most public transit systems are already bankrupt and have to be propped up by taxes collected from other services.

Hold on, this is a pretty odd way to frame a public service. By this logic, you could equally say:

- Most road systems are already bankrupt and have to be propped up by taxes collected from other services.

- Most schools are already bankrupt and have to be propped up by taxes collected from other services.

- Most fire departments are already bankrupt and have to be propped up by taxes collected from other services.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#212

Post by richwater »

cletus wrote: post #140

Why should public transport cost anything at all? I mean, what's the point? You might say the service costs money. It does. The ticket prices never cover that so you're already running at a loss. You spend money on enforcement, payment and ticket machines and you reduce usage of the service. But here's the more important point: cars are already subsidized to a huge degree pretty much everywhere through roads, parking…

Because people don't value free things.

It's why public restrooms are always disgusting.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#213

Post by sveme »

hadlock wrote: post #202
black_puppydog wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget the cost it incurs when someone gets caught (and sometimes jailed!) for chicken-shit like this. Edit to add some context: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/haft-nach-schwarzfahren-u... Consider this article from Berlin where a sizeable number of people in jail are there for riding without a ticket. The cost of that needs to be taken into account here.

In germany, they'll put you in jail for fare evasion? I've always seen it done as a fine and they kick you off the train at the next stop.

It's extremely rare that that happens. It's typically considered a criminal offence if you are caught twice in two years, but rarely anyone is following up on that. Only really frequent repeaters are really prosecuted.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#215

Post by iggldiggl »

whiterock wrote: post #201
southerntofu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would indeed cut quite a cost (monetary and environmental) due to barriers, tickets, validation machines, selling points, controllers...

I don‘t think the cost is so high here, we have covert ticket inspectors, none of those fancy electric gates.

And if you're prepared to spend that much money, I'd rather prioritise spending it on improved service first.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#216

Post by Fargren »

whiterock wrote: post #201
southerntofu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would indeed cut quite a cost (monetary and environmental) due to barriers, tickets, validation machines, selling points, controllers...

I don‘t think the cost is so high here, we have covert ticket inspectors, none of those fancy electric gates.

Aren't inspectors more expensive than gates? You don't have to pay a salary to the gates.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#217

Post by Animats »

hadlock wrote: post #207
ortusdux wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tom Scott did a great video on Luxembourg's switch to free public transport. They were already covering 90% of the cost, so upping that to 100% was easy. London's network, on the other hand, gets roughly 50% of its funding from fares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCQPD9DSOA

San Francisco city council voted in favor of making public transit free, even Muni was on board. Total cost was something like $20 million a year (city budget is measured in the Billions) to get rid of fares completely, forever. That happened about two months ago. Mayor vetoed it, on the grounds that "it would be too popular and overtax muni's capacity". I'm not sure I buy that, my guess is that the local tour bus/to…

It would have turned buses into homeless housing.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#218

Post by [deleted] »

logifail wrote: post #156

This weekend I'll be travelling from Innsbruck to Vienna, a good chunk of the entire length of Austria. I'm not here enough (and not travelling around enough) to be interested in the Klimaticket, but here's how public transport vs car stacks up: Innsbruck to Vienna is 476km (~300mi) by road. It takes about 5 hours to drive, assuming no delays. The way the world is right now, there will certainly be delays. On the fas…

[deleted]

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#219

Post by ketzo »

hadlock wrote: post #207
ortusdux wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tom Scott did a great video on Luxembourg's switch to free public transport. They were already covering 90% of the cost, so upping that to 100% was easy. London's network, on the other hand, gets roughly 50% of its funding from fares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCQPD9DSOA

San Francisco city council voted in favor of making public transit free, even Muni was on board. Total cost was something like $20 million a year (city budget is measured in the Billions) to get rid of fares completely, forever. That happened about two months ago. Mayor vetoed it, on the grounds that "it would be too popular and overtax muni's capacity". I'm not sure I buy that, my guess is that the local tour bus/to…

God, that's so infuriating, particularly given that for many people I know, the concern with Muni/BART is that it's oftentimes too empty, which can be a little freaky particularly as a woman.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#220

Post by Zenst »

penguin_booze wrote: post #214

Meanwhile in the UK: yearly train season ticket for 1+ hr journey: only GBP 5600.

With random delays, strikes and a selection of standing room in which you can share body warmth - all thrown in upon some commutes (no luck involved).
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