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Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

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Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#191

Post by bluGill »

southerntofu wrote: post #74
bluGill wrote: post #3

This should be the preferred way to ride all local transit systems. One price for the whole family, ride as much as you want for the month (I think month is better then year - easier to budget, and if you move you are not out as much). If people aren't willing to pay for the pass, your system isn't useful and you need to fix that. Because it is unlimited rides people are less likely to think about using the car for t…

> One price for the whole family Why not make it free? It's a public service after all, and it's hard to "abuse" transportation like one can use "too much" free water/electricity.

Because then politicians will rob the budget for whatever their pet project is. Fares should at least cover all operating costs (including maintenance), so that politicians can't slowly kill the system via neglect (they will kill it by others means, but at least budget won't be one)

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#192

Post by black_puppydog »

hobofan wrote: post #182
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy does this and I've always wondered how much they must lose over it. Even as a tourist, every time I saw a ticket agent get on the bus/tram, a good number of people would instantly get off. I do like the system better, it's faster in every way. But lost fares would definitely be a concern. Also not sure how that has anything to do with making public transit free honestly.

In Berlin, they usually enter the train in groups of 3-4, so they are able to check every person in one wagon in between two stops. You also see them pretty often at a station collecting the details of someone who didn't have a ticket. I think both of those factors push most people in Berlin to buy a ticket. With a fine of 60 EUR the staff already pays for itself if they pick up ~2 people/hour, which sounds very real…

You forget the cost it incurs when someone gets caught (and sometimes jailed!) for chicken-shit like this.

Edit to add some context:

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/haft-nach-schwarzfahren-u...

Consider this article from Berlin where a sizeable number of people in jail are there for riding without a ticket. The cost of that needs to be taken into account here.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#193

Post by barbazoo »

yarcob wrote: post #184
logifail wrote: post #156

This weekend I'll be travelling from Innsbruck to Vienna, a good chunk of the entire length of Austria. I'm not here enough (and not travelling around enough) to be interested in the Klimaticket, but here's how public transport vs car stacks up: Innsbruck to Vienna is 476km (~300mi) by road. It takes about 5 hours to drive, assuming no delays. The way the world is right now, there will certainly be delays. On the fas…

I still think it should be cheaper. The rail card thing is just a scheme to overcharge casual riders and tourists. It's reasonable for people who regularly go by train, but for people like me who do just one or two trips a year it feels like a rip-off. Especially if I want to take my kids, I need to get a different rail card for families, and when you add it all up it's a lot more expensive than taking my car. For so…

> For some reason, public transport is always priced in a way that makes it really expensive for occassional usage. If you go everday, then an annual pass is a good value.

At €1.32/l for gas in Vienna and 10l/100km this trip would cost you €63 in gas alone with an ICE car. This doesn't account for wear and wasted time so it's actually not that unreasonable at all and actually pretty cheap if you're going by yourself. With a family, I agree, it's more expensive. Although I'm starting to see the appeal that traveling by train has with a family, being able to walk around, entertain the kids more easily, etc.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#194

Post by mistrial9 »

When the San Francisco Bay Area tried to move to a single means of payment, a digital card Transit-Link or whatnot, it was delayed more than a year by BART due to arguements over who holds the cash payments from ticket sales, and when those funds are released, exactly. The funding of MUNI, BART, Alameda County Transit and others, have different histories and cash control, so they fought about it.

source: public news story at the time

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#195

Post by alibarber »

bmicraft wrote: post #127
mongol wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every passenger wears on the system. It is fair that you pay a part of things you use.

Every road user also uses roads paid for by every tax payer so there's that.

But everyone uses roads, driver or not. The food in the store was not grown there, your mail was probably brought along the road at some point…

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#196

Post by ghaff »

mbg721 wrote: post #89
lbriner wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited Germany, they had cleverly ditched most "gateline staff" like you say but then had a reasonable number of ticket inspectors who would check you had a ticket and it was stamped for the current day. Best of both worlds?

The downside is that visitors who are unfamiliar with the system--especially if they don't speak the local language--can end up riding illegally by mistake.

I’m convinced that many transit/rail systems give Minimal thought to the use of the systems by occasional users some of whom may not speak the language natively.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#197

Post by aidenn0 »

yarcob wrote: post #184
logifail wrote: post #156

This weekend I'll be travelling from Innsbruck to Vienna, a good chunk of the entire length of Austria. I'm not here enough (and not travelling around enough) to be interested in the Klimaticket, but here's how public transport vs car stacks up: Innsbruck to Vienna is 476km (~300mi) by road. It takes about 5 hours to drive, assuming no delays. The way the world is right now, there will certainly be delays. On the fas…

I still think it should be cheaper. The rail card thing is just a scheme to overcharge casual riders and tourists. It's reasonable for people who regularly go by train, but for people like me who do just one or two trips a year it feels like a rip-off. Especially if I want to take my kids, I need to get a different rail card for families, and when you add it all up it's a lot more expensive than taking my car. For so…

I have a family of 6, and with that it's almost always going to be cheaper to drive than to take any other form of transportation. Before kids, the math was very different.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#198

Post by xyzelement »

yarcob wrote: post #184
logifail wrote: post #156

This weekend I'll be travelling from Innsbruck to Vienna, a good chunk of the entire length of Austria. I'm not here enough (and not travelling around enough) to be interested in the Klimaticket, but here's how public transport vs car stacks up: Innsbruck to Vienna is 476km (~300mi) by road. It takes about 5 hours to drive, assuming no delays. The way the world is right now, there will certainly be delays. On the fas…

I still think it should be cheaper. The rail card thing is just a scheme to overcharge casual riders and tourists. It's reasonable for people who regularly go by train, but for people like me who do just one or two trips a year it feels like a rip-off. Especially if I want to take my kids, I need to get a different rail card for families, and when you add it all up it's a lot more expensive than taking my car. For so…

> really expensive for occassional usage. If you go everday, then an annual pass is a good value.

That probably makes sense. If your goal is to increase ridership / reduce emissions, you want to appeal tho those traveling every day. Each person you convert gives you 500+ trips a year. And of course people are most price sensitive to something they do every day.

On the flip side, if I travel a few times a year, on one hand I am "less important" because capturing my business won't lead to that many trips and on the other I am less likely price conscious. If I do something once a year, I might chose to drive regardless of train cost, just cuz I want to drive. Or, I may want to avoid driving so I am happy to pay the higher ticket cost anyway.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#199

Post by marcellus23 »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #185
cletus wrote: post #140

Why should public transport cost anything at all? I mean, what's the point? You might say the service costs money. It does. The ticket prices never cover that so you're already running at a loss. You spend money on enforcement, payment and ticket machines and you reduce usage of the service. But here's the more important point: cars are already subsidized to a huge degree pretty much everywhere through roads, parking…

how do you keep people from just riding the train perpetually?

why would you keep people from doing that? are so many people going to be doing that as to actually cause a problem?
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