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The greatest resume I've ever seen

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Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#71

Post by jasonpeacock »

sdoering wrote: post #31
stuff4ben wrote: post #14

So... smart and gets things done. Honestly that's all I look for on a resume. You also have to talk about it in an interview. I couldn't care less if you can invert a binary tree. One of the greatest developers I've ever worked with, I hired straight out of college. He graduated with an electrical engineering degree but his senior year he took a course in Java and liked it and decided to be a programmer. Couldn't tel…

I just came of a call with a a potential hire. I recommended her to a second round because of three things: * She would culturally fit while still bringing something new to the tam * She doesn't know Web Analytics, but has done market research, built html prototypes and has basic knowledge in JS, python, html, SPSS and some other things * She is self motivated and shows this because she actually learned all these ski…

> She would culturally fit

What does this mean? This is a very loaded term, and without qualitative data it results in biased hiring.

Usually, it means "she's young, white, and college educated, just like the rest of us".

People don't need to culturally fit to excel at a role.

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#72

Post by Kranar »

strgcmc wrote: post #50
stuff4ben wrote: post #14

So... smart and gets things done. Honestly that's all I look for on a resume. You also have to talk about it in an interview. I couldn't care less if you can invert a binary tree. One of the greatest developers I've ever worked with, I hired straight out of college. He graduated with an electrical engineering degree but his senior year he took a course in Java and liked it and decided to be a programmer. Couldn't tel…

The trouble is, this "je ne sais quoi" that you speak of, that you "could tell he had the chops to figure things out", is unquantifiable and almost totally subjective. To be a bit blunt and cynical, this way of evaluating candidates basically boils down to, "do I like this candidate?" Your criteria for liking someone happens to be that you look for these nebulous "chops for figuring things out". What about the other…

Exactly, it's so sad hearing someone not realize that their hiring process is basically discriminatory in nature. Can you tell someone had the chops to figure things out if they came from a different cultural background than one you're familiar with? If they had a different social upbringing from yours? If they presented themselves in a way that you personally misunderstood but someone else would have been completely comfortable with?

Of course not, OP basically hired someone he got along with, and that's fine on a small scale, but it's not something to pride oneself over.

A better approach in my opinion is if you find someone who you get along with, you think they have that kind of fire and passion you're looking for, but they don't know the basics and fundamentals of computer science nor are they familiar with data structures and algorithms, you advise them that if they want to make the most of their potential then they should take some minimal amount of time to really devote themselves to understanding those aspects and then they can reapply for the position at a later date. You can keep in touch with them, even potentially mentor them if you really think they are worth it, but you don't just give someone a pass.

Letting someone get by without that knowledge because you like them doesn't really do anyone any favors.

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#73

Post by recursive »

moron4hire wrote: post #43
monster_group wrote: post #7

Interviewer - "That's impressive Daniel. Now can you invert a binary tree on the whiteboard?"

Jesus christ. Inverting a binary tree is not hard. That people keep using this as a joke is more a testament to the stubbornness of people believing they shouldn't have to do no learnin' no more than it is bad interviewing practices.

Wait, inverting a tree is a real thing? What does that even mean? All the terminal leaf nodes become roots? That can't be right. I thought part of the joke was that it was impossible.

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#74

Post by ableal »

mosselman wrote: post #65
ableal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard that Sakharov ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Sakharov ) just used two lines: - Hero of the Soviet Union - Nobel Prize

I think I'll do that as well next time I apply for a job. See where it lands me. If they actually check if I've won a Nobel Prize and find out I haven't, I'll just call it a career hack, that should resonate enough in today's world. The meanings "Hero" and "Soviet Union" are both up for discussion, so I think I could bluf my way into being believed about that part at least.

It's actually a decoration, like the Medal of Freedom or the Legion d'honneur

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#75

Post by recursive »

mcntsh wrote: post #53
moron4hire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus christ. Inverting a binary tree is not hard. That people keep using this as a joke is more a testament to the stubbornness of people believing they shouldn't have to do no learnin' no more than it is bad interviewing practices.

> shouldn't have to do no learnin' Expecting engineers to develop skills they don't learn/use in their actual professions to prove they're capable of working a job makes no sense. If these leetcode puzzles were actually relevant, why do so many engineers have to spend time outside of work "grinding" in order to get better at them?

If playing scales were actually relevant for a professional musician, then why do they have to spend time outside of concerts practicing them in order to get better?

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#76

Post by crispyambulance »

strgcmc wrote: post #50
stuff4ben wrote: post #14

So... smart and gets things done. Honestly that's all I look for on a resume. You also have to talk about it in an interview. I couldn't care less if you can invert a binary tree. One of the greatest developers I've ever worked with, I hired straight out of college. He graduated with an electrical engineering degree but his senior year he took a course in Java and liked it and decided to be a programmer. Couldn't tel…

The trouble is, this "je ne sais quoi" that you speak of, that you "could tell he had the chops to figure things out", is unquantifiable and almost totally subjective. To be a bit blunt and cynical, this way of evaluating candidates basically boils down to, "do I like this candidate?" Your criteria for liking someone happens to be that you look for these nebulous "chops for figuring things out". What about the other…

> Hiring is a Hard Problem, and there's a big gap between well-intentioned intuition and translating that into robust processes.

Ultimately, hiring is INTRINSICALLY a subjective process. If it were quantifiable and one could reliably screen based on "objective" criteria, it would have been a solved problem by now and employers could hire "robustly". But it is not and it never will be that way.

That said, hiring and assessing talent takes practice and there are some techniques that work better than others. In particular, behavioral techniques are extremely valuable and sadly often take a back seat to persnickety homework quiz questions. It takes some skill and practice to get good at behavioral interviews (for both parties). But when it's used properly, the candidate has a chance to actually demonstrate "chops" even though they may lack some of the job requirements.

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#77

Post by [deleted] »

recursive wrote: post #73
moron4hire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus christ. Inverting a binary tree is not hard. That people keep using this as a joke is more a testament to the stubbornness of people believing they shouldn't have to do no learnin' no more than it is bad interviewing practices.

Wait, inverting a tree is a real thing? What does that even mean? All the terminal leaf nodes become roots? That can't be right. I thought part of the joke was that it was impossible.

[deleted]

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#78

Post by eunoia »

recursive wrote: post #73
moron4hire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus christ. Inverting a binary tree is not hard. That people keep using this as a joke is more a testament to the stubbornness of people believing they shouldn't have to do no learnin' no more than it is bad interviewing practices.

Wait, inverting a tree is a real thing? What does that even mean? All the terminal leaf nodes become roots? That can't be right. I thought part of the joke was that it was impossible.

Horizontal inversion (mirror). I was equally confused though the first time I was asked lol.

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#79

Post by anamax »

HPsquared wrote: post #52
josefresco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My old boss (web development) said in 2003ish that "we're just plumbers" and at the time (I was young) it offended me as I thought as "technologists" we were "special". When I went out on my own, I realized he was right.

Plumbers are technologists as well, really. Just a different kind of technology...

Plumbers are essential for civilization.

Pretty much everyone else isn't.

Re: The greatest resume I've ever seen

#80

Post by recursive »

eunoia wrote: post #78
recursive wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, inverting a tree is a real thing? What does that even mean? All the terminal leaf nodes become roots? That can't be right. I thought part of the joke was that it was impossible.

Horizontal inversion (mirror). I was equally confused though the first time I was asked lol.

I would have called it "reversing", but I guess that sounds less technical. Now I'm confused, just in a different way. There's no obscure algorithm for this, just maybe 4 straight-forward lines, depending on language. I guess it tests whether you've ever heard of recursion.

I thought the meme depended on it being some obscure, difficult, and irrelevant thing.

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