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Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

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Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#131

Post by ratww »

lbriner wrote: post #75
newsclues wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free public transit for people who file taxes makes so much sense. The time and money costs of collecting fares is far to high.

In the UK, most people who are employed do not file taxes, they are handled by the employer. Other people whose only income is benefits also do not file taxes.

I think it's safe to assume that GPs suggestion includes people who are paying taxes via the employer or receiving benefits. Also, in lots of countries employers already subsidize public transportation costs.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#132

Post by nerd_light »

fouric wrote: post #84

I see a detrimental incentive here. Let me explain, and then someone please show me what I'm not getting. We're trying to incentivize public over private transit because the former emits less carbon (in general). However, public transit still costs carbon, so taking less trips total seems to be better for the environment (the "reduce" part of "reduce, reuse, recycle" - kind of). If the marginal cost to a public trans…

I think that your consideration is a good one, but I think it comes down to numbers. Will a no-additional-cost-per-ride pass increase the "unnecessary" load on the system so much that they need to start using additional transit vehicles, thus increasing emissions? What percentage of trips are "unnecessary"? Will the growth of the system for "necessary" trips be able to handle the "unnecessary" load anyway?

Aside: for "unnecessary" trips, I'm setting aside the possibility of other options, such as "I already own a car and will now use that instead of paying 1 EUR".

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#133

Post by Leherenn »

FabHK wrote: post #116
Leherenn wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to answer, it depends on a lot of variables, but it is rarely "super inexpensive", just usually cheaper. On a trip basis, i.e. no fixed costs included, no reduction; public transports are often the most expensive form of transportation (when compared to car or plane for longer distances). However, few people pay the full price, especially not those taking the train regularly, and cars have massive fixed cos…

> whereas public transportation is usually linear With "usually" being an important proviso: In Germany, there are weekend tickets for up to 5 people. A student ticket (covering the entire state, included in the tuition fee of around 700 EUR/year) often allows the holder to take someone along after 7pm or on weekends.

Yes, and plenty of countries have some family stuff as well.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#134

Post by ericbarrett »

pjerem wrote: post #123
ericbarrett wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking a trip on public transit to pick up groceries (or any similar task) still consumes time and is not convenient. I used to live in Manhattan, go to the shop on foot, and carry my groceries home. I would absolutely buy as much food as I could carry and use, because it was 45 minutes out of my night that could be used for something else, whether I bought 4 days of food or a single head of lettuce. People don't gen…

> People don't generally joyride public transit unless they have no other options. I think this really depends of the network you are talking about. In some European cities, public transit networks are a blast to use. If frequencies are high enough, and modalities are well connected, you can "ride" the city as easily and naturally on a metro/tram/bus as you would have done by walking. I've took a lot (a damn lot) of…

Fair, not every city has public transit as "gritty" as NYC.

I do remember an UberPool trip I took. We got another passenger along the way. The driver ended up having to go 8 blocks out of our trip's path to pick up the passenger. She went 1 block and then got out. At least when you take a bus or tram out of convenience you are not being so wasteful.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#135

Post by boshomi »

flemhans wrote: post #86

The BahnCard 100 is 3000 EUR in Germany, giving you full access to all trains. Austria is 1/10th the size of Germany. By this logic, the ticket price should be 300 EUR, not 1095 EUR.

Long journeys are rare, everyday journeys have short distances. A larger area therefore only causes a small jump in costs.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#136

Post by Scarblac »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #114
ortusdux wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tom Scott did a great video on Luxembourg's switch to free public transport. They were already covering 90% of the cost, so upping that to 100% was easy. London's network, on the other hand, gets roughly 50% of its funding from fares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCQPD9DSOA

The area of Luxemburg is 2500km2 and the estimated population is 633k. For comparison: the area of London is ~1500km2 with population of 8m+. Do you think that Luxemburg’s system can be scaled up?

Shouldn't it be easier in London due to higher density?

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#137

Post by mongol »

fouric wrote: post #84

I see a detrimental incentive here. Let me explain, and then someone please show me what I'm not getting. We're trying to incentivize public over private transit because the former emits less carbon (in general). However, public transit still costs carbon, so taking less trips total seems to be better for the environment (the "reduce" part of "reduce, reuse, recycle" - kind of). If the marginal cost to a public trans…

Yes, from that point of view it would. Maybe not better from all points of view, but not travelling, or travelling by foot or bicycle is better than travelling by public transit, from CO2 point of view.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#138

Post by bmicraft »

flemhans wrote: post #86

The BahnCard 100 is 3000 EUR in Germany, giving you full access to all trains. Austria is 1/10th the size of Germany. By this logic, the ticket price should be 300 EUR, not 1095 EUR.

Since most public transport is pretty localized the difference should be negligible - you're rarely going to travel a significant distance in relation to the size of the country as that would be unfeasible for a daily commute.

In practice it's not much different from a yearly local transport ticket plus the occasional long distance trip included

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#139

Post by rory »

southerntofu wrote: post #78
rory wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even on public transport, longer commutes are relatively environmentally unfriendly when compared to shorter commutes (in the medium-to-long run). So regardless of individualism, it would generally be a public benefit to encourage shorter commutes.

Yes, but it's not exactly that you have a lot of choice for where you work, for example.

I suppose it depends on the job and the market, but many people do have a lot of choice where they work (and where they live).

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#140

Post by cletus »

Why should public transport cost anything at all? I mean, what's the point? You might say the service costs money. It does. The ticket prices never cover that so you're already running at a loss. You spend money on enforcement, payment and ticket machines and you reduce usage of the service.

But here's the more important point: cars are already subsidized to a huge degree pretty much everywhere through roads, parking, etc.

Let's also start by removing free street parking from any area reasonably serviced by public transport. Or just removing it entirely.

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