The problem is that none of this will work against her defense, that she was not of sane state of mind at the time.
I've followed the case fairly closely. I'm not aware that this is part of her defense. Where did you get this from?
Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
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Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that successful startups often start out claiming that which is impossible. Uber was impossible, because it was illegal. Amazon was impossible, as you couldn't pack and ship stuff that cheaply. Personal computers were at one point considered ludicrous.
These examples are all "impossible" due to regulatory or commercial constraints, rather than scientific - which is a category of obstacle somewhat more difficult to overcome.
Tesla anticipated this, though, such laws don't get passed fast.
They don't have the software, the core of the product.
And the fsd beta testers had to sign NDAs.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious, does this case get so much publicity because it touches upon all the tropes of Silicon Valley? 'Fake it till you make it', 'move fast and break things', 'disrupt the markets', etc. IMHO, this business model is fine when the only things at risk are venture capital and you're trying to sell more widgets, but when it comes to life and safety - bad news.
> IMHO, this business model is fine when the only things at risk are venture capital [...] Isn't there always more risk than just "venture capital" to this "move fast and break things" model? Take Uber for an example, sure, they've burned so much cash trying to circumvent laws, but not only have they burned cash, they have also changed economies around the world by burning this cash and trying to disrupt things. Many…
Totally agree. I can't stand Uber and AirBnb because they mess with people in a bad way. Their sins are well documented. I'm fine with investors losing some $$$ on companies like Juicero. Capitalism needs success and failure to be effective and the death of $699 juice squeezers are an acceptable casualty.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#74The crazy thing about Theranos is that so many people with experience in microfluidics (developed mainly for DNA sequencing although there are other uses) knew that their claims were impossible, technologically speaking. Working with such small volumes to obtain quantitive estimates of blood chemistry is so implausible, as you are introducing uncontrollable variability - micro-evaporation, even tissue localization is…
> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird.
The thing is, the primary goal of an investor is not to invest in companies that are honest and actually do what they claim. The goal is to invest in a company that reaches a valuation high enough to let them recoup their investment at a profit.
If that valuation happens through fraud, hype, destroying the environment, whatever, that doesn't really factor in. It probably is the case that successfully doing what the company claims has a positive correlation with higher valuation, but it's not strictly necessary.
The failure mode for the investors in Theranos is not that it was fraudulent. It's that the fraud was discovered before they could cash out. They didn't need to believe that Theranos was honest, they just needed to believe that other later investors would believe they were honest.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the SV “fake it ‘till you make it” culture. Right now Tesla is delivering “full self driving” cars that require a human driver at all times. Experts have said that it’s not possible using cameras alone, without LiDAR. Oversell and underdeliver. Fraud works great until it doesn’t.
Isn't the self-driving just a feature on top of the car? They're faking one feature that a customer might opt into -- and none that I know have. Tesla has delivered a performant EV that is nice to drive in and is comparable to other luxury vehicles. It's not exactly faking for quite some time.
They're charging for "full self-driving" separately from the car, so I think it's fair to put it in the same bucket.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#76The modern wisdom, "fake it till you make it", requires you to make it, otherwise you'll pay for lying to us.
I'm curious, does this case get so much publicity because it touches upon all the tropes of Silicon Valley? 'Fake it till you make it', 'move fast and break things', 'disrupt the markets', etc. IMHO, this business model is fine when the only things at risk are venture capital and you're trying to sell more widgets, but when it comes to life and safety - bad news.
> IMHO, this business model is fine when the only things at risk are venture capital and you're trying to sell more widgets, but when it comes to life and safety - bad news.
She's not on trial for defrauding patients and putting their life and safety at risk. She's on trial for defrauding investors and putting their money at risk.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#77The problem is that none of this will work against her defense, that she was not of sane state of mind at the time.
I've followed the case fairly closely. I'm not aware that this is part of her defense. Where did you get this from?
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/28/1031961327/elizabeth-holmes-t...
Basically: yes I did do this, but I was abused by Balwani and as a result I was in an impaired state of mind.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#78The crazy thing about Theranos is that so many people with experience in microfluidics (developed mainly for DNA sequencing although there are other uses) knew that their claims were impossible, technologically speaking. Working with such small volumes to obtain quantitive estimates of blood chemistry is so implausible, as you are introducing uncontrollable variability - micro-evaporation, even tissue localization is…
> What just amazed me is how gullible all the investors were, and how they didn't do due diligence, hire outside experts, or anything. Weird.
When you're sat on stage next to Bill Clinton people assume someone somewhere has done some due diligence already. Turns out there are a lot more jobs out there to do with marketing, hype, and event planning than there are doing fact checking.
Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I too thought about the counterfactual in which that if their technology actually worked, COVID testing could have been have been done at scale in the US.
There are companies (at least one anyway) that make rapid testing panels that include COVID, plus a dozen plus other respiratory diseases, in a single test that is profitable at $200 and costs $20 in consumables. I heard that they disabled all the other tests so they could get approved as a COVID test sooner, or something like that. The problem is you can't ask for such a test as a patient, hospital billing departmen…
If the regulators get out of the way it would be great to make these available direct to consumer with an app companion, and the consumer can share the results with their physician.