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Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

arstechnica.com

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#31

Post by thehappypm »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

If anyone truly deserves a very long prison sentence it is Elizabeth Holmes. I think we're about to confirm what we've always known and that has been apparent since the start of this case. That rich white people, even if they got their money by taking advantage of others are pretty immune from harsh punishment in the criminal justice system.

I kinda disagree. Sure, she was not honest to investors. But who cares? these investors are billionaires trying to make a quick buck. The faulty equipment in actual pharmacies is problematic, but I can actually see how prototypes out in the wild is a good thing.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#32

Post by wyldfire »

akshayB wrote: post #5
encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

If anyone truly deserves a very long prison sentence it is Elizabeth Holmes. I think we're about to confirm what we've always known and that has been apparent since the start of this case. That rich white people, even if they got their money by taking advantage of others are pretty immune from harsh punishment in the criminal justice system.

I can't recall last time a C-level company executive get into trouble for using deceptive tactics, every S&P500 company does this to some extent. When they get caught, in majority of cases it is a gentle slap on the wrist or given more of a timeout and reallocation of their position. Also unfortunately using public money and delivering a bad product is not a criminal offense, more like being sloppy at what you do. Wi…

> Also unfortunately using public money and delivering a bad product is not a criminal offense, more like being sloppy at what you do.

They lied to FDA auditors in what sounds like a criminal conspiracy to defraud investors, business partners, and the patients whose blood tests were processed there.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#33

Post by tmpz22 »

hart_russell wrote: post #23
encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

If anyone truly deserves a very long prison sentence it is Elizabeth Holmes. I think we're about to confirm what we've always known and that has been apparent since the start of this case. That rich white people, even if they got their money by taking advantage of others are pretty immune from harsh punishment in the criminal justice system.

I think you could have just stopped at rich. Money helps anyone going through the US Justice system, regardless of color.

The data backs it up [1]. Sentencing disparities based on race in the United States are undeniable.

[1]: https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/141027_iachr...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#34

Post by jjulius »

thehappypm wrote: post #31
encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

If anyone truly deserves a very long prison sentence it is Elizabeth Holmes. I think we're about to confirm what we've always known and that has been apparent since the start of this case. That rich white people, even if they got their money by taking advantage of others are pretty immune from harsh punishment in the criminal justice system.

I kinda disagree. Sure, she was not honest to investors. But who cares? these investors are billionaires trying to make a quick buck. The faulty equipment in actual pharmacies is problematic, but I can actually see how prototypes out in the wild is a good thing.

>Sure, she was not honest to investors.

... or the businesses that purchased the machines, and every average person who got tested with those machines and put their faith in the results, all because she was dishonest.

This is the healthcare industry we're speaking of - it's not just investors at stake here, it's everyone's health that she put at stake for the sake of getting herself rich.

Edit: Regarding prototypes in the wild; given that this is healthcare, I don't mind prototypes being used as long as the unknown accuracy of the devices is clearly communicated before they are used, and everyone getting a test understands that they're part of a clinical trial. This was absolutely not the case.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#35

Post by chollida1 »

thehappypm wrote: post #31
encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

If anyone truly deserves a very long prison sentence it is Elizabeth Holmes. I think we're about to confirm what we've always known and that has been apparent since the start of this case. That rich white people, even if they got their money by taking advantage of others are pretty immune from harsh punishment in the criminal justice system.

I kinda disagree. Sure, she was not honest to investors. But who cares? these investors are billionaires trying to make a quick buck. The faulty equipment in actual pharmacies is problematic, but I can actually see how prototypes out in the wild is a good thing.

Well there are stories of people who made actual medical decisions from the faulty machines she produced.

I'm guessing everyone who made medical decisions based on her faulty machines cares a great deal.

How can you have so little empathy for the everyday people caught up in this

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#36

Post by danso »

louwrentius wrote: post #13

If you haven't read the book "Bad Blood" by John Carreyrou I think you should give it a try. I think it's really worth it.

Seconded. Besides being absolutely stock full of incredible/hilarious inside details about Theranos's rise and fall, it's one of the best books I've ever read about the investigative journalism process. Carreyrou goes out of his way to credit the obscure blog author who tipped him off to Theranos.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#37

Post by dustintrex »

thehappypm wrote: post #31
encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

If anyone truly deserves a very long prison sentence it is Elizabeth Holmes. I think we're about to confirm what we've always known and that has been apparent since the start of this case. That rich white people, even if they got their money by taking advantage of others are pretty immune from harsh punishment in the criminal justice system.

I kinda disagree. Sure, she was not honest to investors. But who cares? these investors are billionaires trying to make a quick buck. The faulty equipment in actual pharmacies is problematic, but I can actually see how prototypes out in the wild is a good thing.

Not being honest to investors is one thing. Knowingly peddling faulty lab results to consumers making important medical decisions based on the results and unaware that they were pawns in this game is quite different.

This is what makes the Theranos case qualitatively different from (say) WeWork, and why she's facing criminal charges. You buy office space from WeWork, you get exactly what you pay for, even if there were insane shenanigans going on in investorland. You buy a lab test from Theranos, you're getting essentially fake results and risking your health on it.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#38

Post by dazc »

thehappypm wrote: post #28
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #3

The problem is that none of this will work against her defense, that she was not of sane state of mind at the time.

Wait, that's not her defense from what I've seen. Her defense was that she basically tried her best, was doing actual R&D, there were tech problems, she made some blunders, but failure is not criminal.

Tech problems is a bit of an understatement.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#39

Post by fernandotakai »

thehappypm wrote: post #28
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #3

The problem is that none of this will work against her defense, that she was not of sane state of mind at the time.

Wait, that's not her defense from what I've seen. Her defense was that she basically tried her best, was doing actual R&D, there were tech problems, she made some blunders, but failure is not criminal.

she's going to say Balwani was abusing her emotionally and sexually, which impaired her sense of mind.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/28/1031961327/elizabeth-holmes-t...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes urged employees to hide Theranos’ lab equipment from inspectors

#40

Post by misiti3780 »

photochemsyn wrote: post #29

The crazy thing about Theranos is that so many people with experience in microfluidics (developed mainly for DNA sequencing although there are other uses) knew that their claims were impossible, technologically speaking. Working with such small volumes to obtain quantitive estimates of blood chemistry is so implausible, as you are introducing uncontrollable variability - micro-evaporation, even tissue localization is…

I too thought about the counterfactual in which that if their technology actually worked, COVID testing could have been have been done at scale in the US.
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