My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit • Hacker News Board

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#191

Post by rewma » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #142

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #20

Believe it or not, this isn't a rare attitude among managers at Amazon. A significant percentage of SDMs believe they must "keep a high bar" and remove any dissenting subordinates. Word has gotten out about it, mostly on the blind app, which forced Amazon to raise pay bands for engineers 50-100k. This is costing the company a lot of money. The difference going forwards for Amazon is that the stock is mostly stagnant,…

I think there is some selection bias in this. And I say this as someone who has recently quit working at Amazon (after many years there). People who get fired are far more likely to leave reviews on blind. And the whole performance improvement plan process that proceeds being fired takes place between the employee and the SDM. It may be the case that their org leadership told the SDM to cut their lowest ranked person…

> People who get fired are far more likely to leave reviews on blind.

It is said that the average tenure at Amazon is two years. By your measuring stick, a company that is a revolving door does have the nasty tendency to leave a lot of its employees with plenty of reasons to complain.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#192

Post by iJohnDoe » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

This isn’t surprising. People in work environments are just people. Most of them might be below average intelligence.

What’s terrible is that no one else at Amazon helped to fix this situation? I understand most HR people are toxic. But no executive or anyone higher up thought this situation was wrong? Absolutely no one wanted to stick their neck out to do the right thing? This tells you everything you need to know about the corporate environment.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#193

Post by dml2135 » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

madrox wrote: post #158

What sucks about stories like this is, while my heart breaks for what this guy went through, managers don't have the same luxury of defending their side of the story to Mother Jones. I worked as an EM at Amazon. I went into this ready to think he had a bad boss (because those definitely exist at Amazon), but after reading this I feel like there's another side to this that has more compassion than is being reflected h…

I would be more apt to share this opinion if not for the fact that he says he specifically warned Amazon that his wife had brain cancer when they began trying to recruit him.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#194

Post by Stampo00 » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

lordkrandel wrote: post #43

Wait a minute. It's for this cases that universal healthcare paid by taxes exists. I wouldn't blame it on your boss or Amazon. It's the USA. A person should not depend on money or productivity to be cured. And a company should not be liable to spend $300000 an year on a non productive employee. Which btw is about 9 years junior developer gross salary equivalent in Italy.

They're both at fault since each side expects the other to catch those who fall into this unfortunate situation.

The government should provide for people in this situation so that if you lost your job due to the circumstances, it shouldn't be a double-whammy that will sink the rest of your life.

In the absence of a government safety net, the company should pick up that slack if they value the employee more than the cost of hiring and training someone new. In fact, it may be in their best interest regardless, because loyalty among your employees is a very expensive asset.

If two outfielders are running to catch a fly ball and then both stop at the last second because they each think the other one had it and the ball hits the ground, I'd consider them both at fault.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#195

Post by aborsy » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #150

illumin8 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the timeline and it seems like he started in mid-late 2018, was having performance problems throughout 2019, and didn't even get fired until mid-2020. This is super generous, and while I have a lot of empathy for his personal situation, I think he could have had a much different outcome if he would have been more proactive about managing expectations: - Amazon does have a bereavement benefit that you definitel…

> How many years should a company wait for an underperforming employee to perform? Perhaps wait until after their spouse has died and see if they recover? Even the idea of an "underperforming employee" is specious at best. This is why I love Italy and France, it is night impossible to fire someone for things like this from tech companies. Of course, they also don't have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical is…

This is simplistic. The situation in France and Italy can be horrible in many other ways.

There are choices and trade offs. But don’t think that those regulations in France or Italy are rosy in every way, and come at no cost.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#196

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

iamdbtoo wrote: post #93

CoastalCoder wrote: post #2

I read through the article. I really, really hurt for its author, and pray that I never face similar circumstances. It sounds like he's stinging from his manager not expressing enough empathy. But with the information in the article, I don't really understand what Amazon should have done differently. Unfortunately the article was vague about just how much the author was underperforming. Also, while I'm no fan of Amaz…

Is letting a struggling employee underperform for a while seriously not an option? At the very least, they could have not made this man's last few years with his sick wife that much more difficult because they require him to be functioning at top performance all of the time.

It really depends on how much they are underperforming. Are they late to a few meetings or not showing up for weeks without making arrangements?

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#197

Post by mindslight » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #126

relaunched wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies employ people. People have problems. Firing people, or forcing out people, when they have problems, doesn't sound like a very good place to work. It's very possible that the unspoken culture at Amazon is work hard above all else. If you've read "The Everything Store", there is a quote, something like, (regarding Bezos) "If you're bad, Jeff will run you out of the company. If you're good, he'll ride you into…

Companies employ people to do work . That is the fundamental nature of the relationship. Some leeway is to be expected for temporary fluctuations in the work being done. But in the long term, if the work is no longer being performed at the agreed upon level, the company is not obligated to continue paying the person. In a sense, blaming the company becomes kind of a distraction from the real issue, which is that in t…

A thousand times this. Expecting companies to be the source of resources that smooth over personal problems actually ends up disempowering workers, who then have to conform to companies' mold in order to receive the benefits. Imagine a similar family situation only the employee was about to get fired for other reasons, and now their health "insurance" has disappeared / skyrocketed as well. As it is, it sounds like OP really needed more routine time off than what Amazon allowed.

Rather than relying on companies as reservoirs of wealth that should be taking care of employees (eg this, healthcare, parental leave, etc), we need to move that wealth outside of corporate control - through a combination of higher compensation, better managing of personal finances, entrenched industry reform, catchall social safety net, etc.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#198

Post by triactual » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

dml2135 wrote: post #193

madrox wrote: post #158

What sucks about stories like this is, while my heart breaks for what this guy went through, managers don't have the same luxury of defending their side of the story to Mother Jones. I worked as an EM at Amazon. I went into this ready to think he had a bad boss (because those definitely exist at Amazon), but after reading this I feel like there's another side to this that has more compassion than is being reflected h…

I would be more apt to share this opinion if not for the fact that he says he specifically warned Amazon that his wife had brain cancer when they began trying to recruit him.

So you would want Amazon to pass him over because his wife has an existing medical condition? That would be a good article too.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#199

Post by darkwizard42 » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #150

illumin8 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the timeline and it seems like he started in mid-late 2018, was having performance problems throughout 2019, and didn't even get fired until mid-2020. This is super generous, and while I have a lot of empathy for his personal situation, I think he could have had a much different outcome if he would have been more proactive about managing expectations: - Amazon does have a bereavement benefit that you definitel…

> How many years should a company wait for an underperforming employee to perform? Perhaps wait until after their spouse has died and see if they recover? Even the idea of an "underperforming employee" is specious at best. This is why I love Italy and France, it is night impossible to fire someone for things like this from tech companies. Of course, they also don't have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical is…

I don't even think you can get a Cobra plan for that much money...was this for your whole family? You must have been on the top tier program at your company...

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#200

Post by divbzero » Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #44

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #4

A tip: If anyone finds themselves in a tragic situation like this where they can’t work but also can’t afford to take leave, investigate your short and long-term disability benefits ASAP. Also read up on the documentation necessary to begin disability claims. Engage with a doctor early on who can document the severe depressive symptoms that are preventing work (which the author specifically cites in his anecdote). Do…

Another HN user posted—and then deleted—this comment: > I worry that many people in such a situation may not have the right frame of mind to be able to find, read, understand, and absorb what is normally quite dry reading material requiring often ending in something requiring exceptional perseverance. (I noticed because I was writing a reply.) I think it’s a good comment! And I think that is why you do it now. It’s j…

Reminds me that I should send out a short “how to” guide to my family on where and how to file claims for support. Makes it easier to take action if needed with minimal mental effort.