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Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

airforcemag.com

31–40 of 209 posts

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#31

What does hypersonic mean? I thought all missiles were largely supersonic, except for maybe cruise missiles.

There aren't exact thresholds, but hypersonic generally refers to speeds fast enough that fluid heating can no longer be approximated away and chemical reactions and ionization in the air start to dominate.

Aerodynamics is a practice of which physical phenomena you can ignore. At low speeds you can pretend the speed of sound is infinite / air is incompressible (these are equivalent), as you get faster you have to start paying attention to compression, then shock waves, heating, ionization, and the mechanics of individual particles.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#32
post #2

As I understand it, China has hypersonic missiles and nukes, whereas the US does not. Should a conflict in the South China sea break out, China could nuke US carrier groups assuming their satellites aren't taken out first. That spells game over for US projection of power if successful. China could deploy air and submersible drones to get around downed satellites, but these have the potential of being jammed with EMP,…

Somewhat related to a China tech angle, I submitted this article about what Chinese stealth boats look like to the newest commercial radar satellites: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28686121

Is that a big deal? Internet told me the reason why ships go only halfway YF-117 is because surface radar expects sea clutters, and an awkward black patch created by stealth features gives out its position and nature.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#33

What does hypersonic mean? I thought all missiles were largely supersonic, except for maybe cruise missiles.

One key consideration that I only got recently is the difference between a cruise & ballistic missile. A ballistic missile launches at great velocity, then more or less falls at it's target (over an extended distance) using a ballistic trajectory. A cruise missile is under power for a large part of it's journey, typically flying much lower, & able to navigate/direct itself.

A ballistic missile is often quite supersonic. But cruise missiles being hypersonic is definitely a big shift.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they decide they want to gobble up Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan, Australia, etc? Should we just sit back and say "it's not us, so this is fine?"

I think citizens of the most violent nation in recent history should do some introspection before projecting their misdeeds onto others..

How recent is recent history?

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they decide they want to gobble up Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan, Australia, etc? Should we just sit back and say "it's not us, so this is fine?"

Legally Taiwan and Mainland are in a civil war for the legitimate government of the one China. One China is the "policy" of US China and Taiwan. Of course, Taiwan want to get rid of that. China will risk a nuclear war to prevent that, and US is OK with either, preferably let China bleed the most with minimal cost. These are as obvious as the sun hanging over the sky. China had no ambition for territorial expansion ot…

> Hi, propagandist?

Personal attacks are against site rules, and you've been here long enough that you should know that.

> China had no ambition for territorial expansion other than defending herself. That's the pattern for 2 thousands years.

China occupied Tibet. China invaded Vietnam twice. The first time, they stayed for a thousand years. "China has no ambition for territorial expansion" only if you accept China's definition of what is rightfully China. A bunch of us don't, though. For that matter, a bunch of nations don't.

Specifically with regard to Taiwan: Yes, China has a historical claim on Taiwan. (And, yes, Taiwan has a historical claim on the mainland.) Technically, as you say it is a civil war.

Practically, it's two countries. They have two militaries, issue two different passports, have two different currencies, etc. Neither one wants to admit this, but de facto they are two separate countries. (So are North and South Korea, even though that civil war legally isn't over either.)

So, legal fictions aside, for China to conquer Taiwan would be a dramatic increase of their actual territory. (That's kind of implied in the word "conquer".)

And it's clearly China that's the aggressor here. Nobody's talking about Taiwan invading and conquering the mainland. But China talks about invading if Taiwan even dares to say that they're a separate country. They act like, if we all play pretend with them, it makes their claim more legitimate or something.

Speaking of legitimacy, let's note that Taiwan is the legitimate government of China. The mainland is held by the rebels.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#37
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should a conflict in the South China sea break out, China could nuke US carrier groups If China wants to start a nuclear exchange, sure. The US probably wouldn't go nuclear in response to an invasion of Taiwan, but it absolutely would in response to a nuclear attack on US forces.

> but it absolutely would in response to a nuclear attack on US forces. But apparently not without phoning China about it first, if recent news is to be believed.

Ouch.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#38

What does hypersonic mean? I thought all missiles were largely supersonic, except for maybe cruise missiles.

A good starting point is this Congressional report on hypersonic weapons, updated one month ago: https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/R45811.pdf

Thanks, I've started reading it and will continue later, the material seems to be perfect for a non-Aerospace professional.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#39
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the premise here that carrier groups would be survivable in the absence of hypersonic missiles? They... aren't at all, are they?

Carrier groups are supposedly survivable except for the stealth subs and hypersonic missiles but noone has tested that theory. I wonder if the future will be just a cheap ship with a large number of single-use missile launchers.

How are the hypersonic missiles guided and what is their range?

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#40
post #2

As I understand it, China has hypersonic missiles and nukes, whereas the US does not. Should a conflict in the South China sea break out, China could nuke US carrier groups assuming their satellites aren't taken out first. That spells game over for US projection of power if successful. China could deploy air and submersible drones to get around downed satellites, but these have the potential of being jammed with EMP,…

> China could nuke US carrier groups assuming their satellites aren't taken out first. That spells game over for US projection of power if successful.

Incorrect, the USA will probably just shrug, and call in the other 11 super-carriers and 9 amphibious assault ships.

At the same time they will invoke NATO article 5 and a few other Asian mutual-defence treaties. 2 UK, 1 Spanish, 1 French, and 2 Italian carriers will arrive soon afterwards.

As will 4 Japanese, 3 French, 2 Australian and 2 South Korean helicopter carriers.

The trick isn't to take out one aircraft carrier: its to to be able to take them all out.

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