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Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

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Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#111

Post by vmception »

user-the-name wrote: post #94
dariusj18 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a certain sense to that. If it is effective for the worst of society who are constant targets, it will work for grandma. However that is assuming the technology can become user friendly/cheap.

No, there is no sense to that. The worst of society have a lot of tools that are effective for them, that your grandma has absolutely no use for. The worst of society will also put up with using some pretty weird things as long as they will help them break the law, that are incredibly awkward to use for anyone else.

from my perspective, you are advocating for the worst opsec possible: "hey everyone add your name, address, and the private key to all your funds for the credit/debit network to every site, just because using crypto is inconvenient for grandma for now and therefore only for the 'worst of society'"

its funny to me because you don't even realize thats your argument, since you are focused on the specific use case of far-right subscribers not being able to get doxxed when actual criminals actually hack a website

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#112

Post by vmception »

dariusj18 wrote: post #107
user-the-name wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is no sense to that. The worst of society have a lot of tools that are effective for them, that your grandma has absolutely no use for. The worst of society will also put up with using some pretty weird things as long as they will help them break the law, that are incredibly awkward to use for anyone else.

My point was that if a solution was battle tested to withstand the scrutiny that the ne'er-do-wells encourage, then random person who knows nothing can feel comfortable that their use of the technology is also secure. It's kind of like calling something "military-grade". In addition I also qualified the statement to ensure that your second point was covered, that overhead could restrict it's use.

you are trying to straddle a line and it won't go anywhere.

so let me help you: crypto is a better solution for e-commerce and people won't be able to get doxxed when employing the best practices. the best practices will become more convenient.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#113

Post by user-the-name »

vmception wrote: post #111
user-the-name wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is no sense to that. The worst of society have a lot of tools that are effective for them, that your grandma has absolutely no use for. The worst of society will also put up with using some pretty weird things as long as they will help them break the law, that are incredibly awkward to use for anyone else.

from my perspective, you are advocating for the worst opsec possible: "hey everyone add your name, address, and the private key to all your funds for the credit/debit network to every site, just because using crypto is inconvenient for grandma for now and therefore only for the 'worst of society'" its funny to me because you don't even realize thats your argument, since you are focused on the specific use case of far…

Regular people don't need "opsec".

And you can make up things you think I am arguing and feel smug about it all day, but that is not going to gain you any insight into anything.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#114

Post by user-the-name »

dariusj18 wrote: post #107
user-the-name wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is no sense to that. The worst of society have a lot of tools that are effective for them, that your grandma has absolutely no use for. The worst of society will also put up with using some pretty weird things as long as they will help them break the law, that are incredibly awkward to use for anyone else.

My point was that if a solution was battle tested to withstand the scrutiny that the ne'er-do-wells encourage, then random person who knows nothing can feel comfortable that their use of the technology is also secure. It's kind of like calling something "military-grade". In addition I also qualified the statement to ensure that your second point was covered, that overhead could restrict it's use.

You actually hit the nail on the head there: It is a lot like calling something "military grade". Military grade is not something regular people want! Military grade is clunky, cumbersome and problematic for reasons that are a tradeoff for things that matter a lot to the military, but which are not an issue at all for regular people.

You don't want your car to be covered in heavy armour. That gains you nothing and costs you a lot. But the military does want that, a lot.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#115

Post by Chris2048 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #102
Chris2048 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the free association rights of their bosses and colleagues should not be I'm not sure "free association" applies to employment. If someone chooses not to have any friends that aren't the same race as themselves, racist as that might be, it's not illegal. But if they start a business they cannot filter either customers or employees based on race; in that sense they aren't free to choose who to associate in a busines…

> I'm not sure "free association" applies to employment. If someone chooses not to have any friends that aren't the same race as themselves, racist as that might be, it's not illegal. > But if they start a business they cannot filter either customers or employees based on race; in that sense they aren't free to choose who to associate in a business sense. This is not an argument that businesses don’t have free associ…

It's an argument that "free association" wrt a business is nothing like personal FA.

You don't FA with coworkers because you don't (generally) get to decide who to work with, except in the sense of quitting.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#116

Post by notanzaiiswear »

dang wrote: post #104
notanzaiiswear wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I picked the username because it was only a matter of time until somebody would accuse me of being a nazi - as is the norm these days for anybody who doesn't adhere to the mainstream leftist ideology. That confirms both that the username is trollish and that your purpose is to use HN for ideological battle, which is against the site guidelines. We ban accounts that break the site guidelines. If an account uses HN p…

[dead]

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#117

Post by molbioguy »

belltaco wrote: post #68
molbioguy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violating their expected privacy, fostering moralistic vigilante justice against them, and creating an environment where they have to fear expressing opinions -- that's "poisoning the well" in a far worse way.

Do you think a political opinion like 'taxes are too high and should be lowered" is on the same moral footing as misinformation like 'the holocaust did not really happen' ?

The issue isn't people's opinion. Was everyone whose privacy was violated saying "that the holocaust did not happen"? And who exactly is the arbiter of what's acceptable, if not the law? The issue is that the people who released this data were not law enforcers, they were vigilantes. Maybe some people hold vigilanties in high regard, but I don't. If someone says something you don't like or something you think is inaccurate, reply to it, inform people of what's wrong and convince them of why you believe you are right -- don't trample all over their legal rights. The violations of privacy were indiscriminate and based on the reputation of the company not the individuals -- not that targeting privacy violations would have made things any more legal or acceptable. The loss of expectations to legal privacy are a horrible "poisoning of the well" and eventually hurts everyone.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#119

Post by jareklupinski »

hemloc_io wrote: post #63

It's interesting to me how many people are ready to lap up this data, what's more surprising is these people aren't journalists but some weirdly named think tanks. Seems like there's a solid industry around mapping "hate" groups and studying them.(and potentially doxxing their members by the sounds of it)

and recruiting them :(

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#120

Post by bArray »

MrGilbert wrote: post #27

Oddly enough, my data is also in this set (thanks to HIBP I know about that...) - and also thanks to HIBP, I know the domain trader that made me appear in this dataset. It's unfortunate, as I'd consider myself "leftist".

> It's unfortunate, as I'd consider myself "leftist".

The news media doesn't generalise and it doesn't lie, you are a 'far-right troll' that 'trusted Epik' - silly you!

Seriously though, whatever your political stance, I am sorry you had your details leaked. What you do or don't do privately is entirely your business, and is certainly not of the place of some news media to go sharing about.

> After Alayon’s name appeared in the breached data, his brokerage, Travers Miran Realty, dropped him as an agent, as first reported by the real estate news site Inman.

Perhaps, we should consider that despite many right-wing persons using this domain service, that doesn't mean they _all_ are - and that headlines like this are actually insanely irresponsible.

> Asked why his name, email address and other personal information were listed in company invoices for the “racisminc” and Holocaust-denial domains, Alayon said the data was “easily falsifiable,” that he was the possible victim of extortion and that The Post was “fake news.”

Maybe he was more extreme in his views in the past, and later changed his mind and became less radical. Do these people not believe in reform? If they don't, then surely the only purpose of this article is the sadistic destruction of this man's life without a fair court?

Perhaps he believes in these things in his private life, but exercises separation between his private life and work. I hate to remind people of this, but there's a very good chance that you do not agree with _everything_ your colleagues, family, friends, etc, do. Differences are okay, they are even quite healthy.

> The spokesperson said the company “offers its services to everyone” and that “domains affiliated with right-wing politics comprise less than 1 percent of users.” Epik said it is not aware of its users’ intents and “does not consider its role to be censors of free citizens.”

I'm not sure I want my domain registrar to be political either, even if it means an extremist gets a domain. I fully respect Epik's stance on this. Forcing companies to become political is incredibly dangerous.

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