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Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

status.signal.org

231–240 of 262 posts

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not without drawbacks, but TLS gives almost everyone good security/privacy by default. And for those who really need it, anyone who does even a basic amount of research can gain very good levels of confidence in the privacy of their TLS setup. Also, there are degrees of federation. It doesn't have to be a wild wild west of the sort we see with projects like Mastodon. A closed federation can have strict rules on…

> In fact, we see some of this in TLS - not everyone can participate, but there are dozens of independent organizations working within an internal governance models I think what's happened here is that you don't understand the difference between TLS, a network protocol, and the Web PKI, a Public Key Infrastructure and so you've sort of muddled both together, which is revealing on its own. You've also imagined a fairy…

>I think what's happened here is that you don't understand the difference between TLS, a network protocol, and the Web PKI, a Public Key Infrastructure and so you've sort of muddled both together, which is revealing on its own.

I understand the difference, and the condescending snark is not appreciated. I don't think the difference is very important in this case.

It's also revealing, perhaps, that you don't understand that the "Web PKI" is used far and wide in domains outside of the web.

>Moxie's strategy works and yours didn't, and you're here telling everybody you don't agree but reality doesn't care whether you agree with it or not.

Oh, bugger off. The only group who has even made a serious attempt to do it properly is Matrix and one "meh" implementation does not damn an entire design.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Element on the Matrix protocol. Not perfect UX but keeps improving. Free but it has a solid business model servicing business cases with the open source set stack that suits corporate needs.

Last time I tried Matrix the message delivery was unreliable and E2E was a second class citizen with some big compromises. Has it gotten any better?

We’ve never had message delivery problems on Matrix (unless I missed something), and E2EE has been turned on by default since early 2020. You may have been on an overloaded server, or trying years ago.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#233
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Signal for many years as well, I am now trying to move away from it because while the security is nice, it lacks a good backup/restore mechanism. All the critical data I recieved or sent on it is encrypted and even with the same number and pin it can't "merge" or import specific backups! The thick log that broke the camel's back for me was having to keep an android phone specifically for Signal usage beca…

Would you be willing to create tickets for these items if they don't exist already? What does one need to actually contribute code to Signal?

There are over 200 open pull requests in GitHub for the Signal Android app, ones dating back to 2015. Instead, stupid shit (stickers, crypto, etc) is being introduced, and actual discussions around fundamental changes to make Signal better and more private are being ignored.

Lots of people are trying to contribute, but Signal is more and more becoming a black box, I say this as a t-shirt wearing (Open Whisper Systems) advocate, Signal is falling out of favor with many "OG" advocates.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#234
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WhatsApp has a better privacy story than Telegram https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25685446

The backdoor only applies to WhatsApp for Business, where companies want a fail-safe to open employee messages e.g. after they've left the company. The fact they're transparent about it should be enough. Do not use WA for Business, for personal private communication. They are not the same product, and the business version isn't truly E2EE.

There is no way to verify this. Do you trust Facebook?

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#235

I have very limited experience with Signal, but it has an issue I cannot figure out that massively limits the appeal for me. I very rarely get any sort of notification. If I open the app on my OnePlus 7 Pro running Android 10, it'll flood me with missed notifications. But that's about it. (I think it has notified me in the past without opening the app, but I can't remember for sure.) I'm sure it's not designed to wor…

OnePlus is notorious for preventing apps from working as intended in order to increase battery life. Take a look at https://dontkillmyapp.com to see what you need to do to ensure Signal is working as intended.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, we see some of this in TLS - not everyone can participate, but there are dozens of independent organizations working within an internal governance models I think what's happened here is that you don't understand the difference between TLS, a network protocol, and the Web PKI, a Public Key Infrastructure and so you've sort of muddled both together, which is revealing on its own. You've also imagined a fairy…

>I think what's happened here is that you don't understand the difference between TLS, a network protocol, and the Web PKI, a Public Key Infrastructure and so you've sort of muddled both together, which is revealing on its own. I understand the difference, and the condescending snark is not appreciated. I don't think the difference is very important in this case. It's also revealing, perhaps, that you don't understan…

> I understand the difference, and the condescending snark is not appreciated. I don't think the difference is very important in this case.

As an example, you wrote earlier: > In fact, we see some of this in TLS - not everyone can participate

As written this is nonsense of course. TLS is a series of published standard protocols, everyone can "participate" by implementing one of the protocols, and at their option some or even all optional extensions.

But for the Web PKI things are quite different, only some can participate and under exacting conditions. On one side, Certificate Authorities can only participate via the root trust programmes of key trust stores operated by Mozilla, Microsoft, and Apple, plus Google (for Android and, perhaps sooner or later, Chrome) and Oracle (for the JRE). Participation in these programmes requires obeying the CA/B BRs, but also is at the sole discretion of each programme operator and so their own policies apply†

As subscribers, the Web PKI is only interested in certifying names in the Internet's DNS hierarchy and, to a small extent in the Internet's IP address hierarchy. Other names aren't actually certifiable in the Web PKI, sometimes to the surprise of would-be subscribers (and even, once in a while, CAs)

Finally as a relying party (the role all of us occupy even if in addition to other roles) the Web PKI is only applicable to the Internet, which of course is a lot of things but it isn't everything.

> It's also revealing, perhaps, that you don't understand that the "Web PKI" is used far and wide in domains outside of the web.

That's true, and has been for many years, and yet, there's a reason it's named the Web PKI anyway. Notice the B in CA/B stands for "Browser" even though today these are (except Mozilla) operating system vendors, historically they're the browser vendors. You could imagine alternate worlds where say, IBM, Apple and Sony are the biggest players in CA/B instead of Mozilla, Microsoft and Apple, and it really isn't about the web at all, but they're quite different from our world.

If you don't like the phrase "Web PKI" you could sometimes substitute PKIX, but, ultimately PKIX isn't quite the same thing. PKIX is technical, it explains how to use the X.500 system's certificate format (X.509) to talk about the Internet instead of the X.500 directory, but it makes few substantive policy decisions. Certificates you get from Let's Encrypt are PKIX certificates, but, the ones you mint for testing with self-service tools or that come supplied with many Linux installs are also PKIX certificates and those aren't trustworthy. Certificates from Let's Encrypt are also part of the Web PKI and that's why you trust them.

† These policies can be quite significant, for example Microsoft's programme requires that participants agree to revoke certificates if Microsoft so chooses. In practice Microsoft seems to use this power to kill off certain types of phishing scam that attack Microsoft's products. Mozilla's programme has historically been the origin of a lot of important public policy some of which is now in the CA/B BRs.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I tried Matrix the message delivery was unreliable and E2E was a second class citizen with some big compromises. Has it gotten any better?

We’ve never had message delivery problems on Matrix (unless I missed something), and E2EE has been turned on by default since early 2020. You may have been on an overloaded server, or trying years ago.

It was a couple years ago, before 2020. Back then, I had an issue with delayed push notifications. I'll give it another try.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#238
post #187
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing usage fall off among my network, because it doesn't replace WhatsApp: * it can't save photos to the camera roll * notifications are hit and miss

>* notifications are hit and miss Blame your Android distribution https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/5085#issu...

It's on iOS.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#239
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> others might literally have their life depended on the service working If your life literally depends on a service, make sure to pay for that service. Also, make sure to have a backup.

Many services your life depends on can't be paid for, or rather - you can't decide whether and how much you pay for them, and thus cannot increase their reliability through payment. One set of examples is online services and apps like Facebook, GMail, WhatsApp and such (although you could argue whether your life actually depends on any of these). Another set of examples are things like transportation infrastructure,…

Fun facts:

- I pay for mail service from Google.

- I don't depend on whatsapp. I have multiple alternatives, including SMS.

- I still have Facebook and LinkedIn accounts that I never actually use.

- I have multiple fire extinguishers, because I don't depend on fire fighters to arrive on time, they're a last resort.

My biggest dependency, by far, is the power grid. I really need to look into battery storage for my solar. Because my life literally depends on that... Ooh. And the supply chain for groceries I guess.

Re: Signal is experiencing technical difficulties

#240
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to create tickets for these items if they don't exist already? What does one need to actually contribute code to Signal?

There are over 200 open pull requests in GitHub for the Signal Android app, ones dating back to 2015. Instead, stupid shit (stickers, crypto, etc) is being introduced, and actual discussions around fundamental changes to make Signal better and more private are being ignored. Lots of people are trying to contribute, but Signal is more and more becoming a black box, I say this as a t-shirt wearing (Open Whisper Systems…

I wonder what the best solution is. Can we fork and still be interoperable?
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