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Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

seattletimes.com

31–40 of 139 posts

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have different ideals. A lot of people really care about free speech and freedom in general.

Sure but that's the fun thing, you can support this and believe in free speech. After all, free speech does not mean freedom from consequences to most people. Nor are other people forced to not react to your speech in any way since that would impede other freedoms like freedom of association. And publishing this information is also free speech. You could argue that there should be an expectation of privacy but that's…

Freedom of Speech means Freedom from (some) Consequences.

The constitutional right to Freedom of Speech means, at the least, Freedom from legal Consequences. If it does not mean that, then it does not mean anything. The same argument then extends to the informal meaning of free speech.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but that's the fun thing, you can support this and believe in free speech. After all, free speech does not mean freedom from consequences to most people. Nor are other people forced to not react to your speech in any way since that would impede other freedoms like freedom of association. And publishing this information is also free speech. You could argue that there should be an expectation of privacy but that's…

Freedom of Speech means Freedom from (some) Consequences. The constitutional right to Freedom of Speech means, at the least, Freedom from legal Consequences. If it does not mean that, then it does not mean anything. The same argument then extends to the informal meaning of free speech.

Being fired isn’t a legal consequence.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#33

Oddly enough, my data is also in this set (thanks to HIBP I know about that...) - and also thanks to HIBP, I know the domain trader that made me appear in this dataset. It's unfortunate, as I'd consider myself "leftist".

That's one of the issues - the "far-right", depending on who is using the term, can range from someone advocating for genocide of anyone without blue eyes and blond hair, all the way to someone who says that Donald Trump wasn't that bad as a president.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#34

> The Post publicizes material obtained through hacking with caution, only after verifying its authenticity and ascertaining that there is news value in bringing such information to light. Sure you do. So let me just check here: Political purity as an employment requirement... Firing people for this is fine, right? What happens when the popular politics change? The "Moral Majority" folks were accused of wanting to be…

This is going beyond "political purity" as the guy was quite evidently involved in racist behaviors. Racism is not a political "right" or "wrong", it's just straight up wrong. Holocaust denial is another one of those issues that isn't "political" but rather a belief that stems from ignorance and hatred. Firing people for being racist is, in my book, completely acceptable.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of Speech means Freedom from (some) Consequences. The constitutional right to Freedom of Speech means, at the least, Freedom from legal Consequences. If it does not mean that, then it does not mean anything. The same argument then extends to the informal meaning of free speech.

Being fired isn’t a legal consequence.

And Freedom of Speech isn't just the First Amendment.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you need to stop them before they came to power. World learned that in 1933.

[flagged]

> I think it should be possible to discuss even the details of the holocaust

Details of Holocaust are allowed to be discussed and are discussed regularly. Discussing details of holocaust and holocaust denier are two different things, turns out.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you need to stop them before they came to power. World learned that in 1933.

[flagged]

> To me it is rather the demand that certain beliefs may not be questioned that enables things like fascists rising to power

Holocaust is not a belief, it is a historical event that has already happened.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being fired isn’t a legal consequence.

And Freedom of Speech isn't just the First Amendment.

Sure.

The issue is that you’re implicitly trying to find a way to say that these people’s speech should be protected, while the free association rights of their bosses and colleagues should not be. There is no principled way to consider racist trolling free speech, but not also those calling for their firing to also be considered free speech.

I think Popehat says this best.

> Private consequences are something else. Speech is designed to invoke private and social consequences, whether the speech is "venti mocha no whip, please," or "I love you," or "fuck off."1 The private and social consequences of your speech — whether they come from a barista, or your spouse, or people online, or people at whom you shout on the street — represent the free speech and freedom of association of others.

> But speech has private social consequences, and it's ridiculous to expect otherwise. Whether sincere or motivated by poseur edginess, controversial words have social consequences. Those social consequences are inseparable from the free speech and free association rights of the people imposing them. It is flatly irrational to suggest that I should be able to act like a dick without being treated like a dick by my fellow citizens

> Finally, I should note that one social consequence is employment-related. In many American jurisdictions, employment is "at will" unless the parties have a contract that says otherwise; an employer can fire an employee for any reason not prohibited by law. Private employers can generally fire private employees based on their extra-curricular speech. That's private action, not government action; it's an exercise of such free association and free speech by private entities as the law allows. Employers may face social consequences — particularly in a social media age — for exercising that right in a way that angers the public, which is in turn the public's free speech right.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#39
post #33

Oddly enough, my data is also in this set (thanks to HIBP I know about that...) - and also thanks to HIBP, I know the domain trader that made me appear in this dataset. It's unfortunate, as I'd consider myself "leftist".

That's one of the issues - the "far-right", depending on who is using the term, can range from someone advocating for genocide of anyone without blue eyes and blond hair, all the way to someone who says that Donald Trump wasn't that bad as a president.

Americans have no context for left and right. They literally are both far right because that’s a political alignment, and one that Donald Trump absolutely fits. The ones advocating genocide are violent extremists on top of that.

The democrats are a center-right party while the actual left is effectively frozen out of the political system and is currently focused on building alternate power structures for when the US government inevitably collapses. There’s not a lot of electoral participation on the left because when the choice is fascism or diet fascism, there’s not much point to an actual socialist.

Re: Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep identities secret

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you need to stop them before they came to power. World learned that in 1933.

[flagged]

Paradox of tolerance; the only way to have a tolerant society is to be intolerant of intolerance. You have to make that exception or you lose the entire thing. Very much a “sorry not sorry” about “cancel culture”.
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