Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

telegra.ph

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 179 posts

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#81

Post by seniorivn »

vldchk wrote: post #71
seniorivn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and buyers of those bonds are affiliated with Russia structures like VTB Capital bank or Russian Government investment fund named “Russian Fund of Direct Investments”. As far as i know, it's not true(meaning there are no signs/proof of that). It's entirely possible, durov does have connections in russian elite, after all he was the creator of vk.com russian most popular social network. Vk was owned by russian oligar…

I can share sources to Russian websites but will it tell you anything? https://www.rbc.ru/business/23/03/2021/605a3fbc9a79470b2eb35... They created a very elegant scheme when through a fictional Arabic investment fund they put russian government money (Government fund invests into Arabic fund which invests into bonds). It is kind of Russian classic and they did it a lot in the last. Nowadays Telegram Bonds are traded…

I'm russian as well, and rbc.ru is not the most independent source at the time of publishing, but even according to them, RDIF(РФПИ) invested about $2mil, that's a drop in the bucket, and since it was secondary market, it proves nothing but active propaganda from both sides(russian government has an agenda to promote as well as telegram)

bonds being traded wherever they are traded isn't really a proof of anything as well, wouldn't be even if it was shares of a company, but as bonds it's not that much of an influence, especially if accumulating big share of them would cost a fortune.

As to rumors, i would love to see any of it, again it's entirely possible, after Telegram official's attendance of government pr public forum(will use the same source, but it was all over the internet https://www.rbc.ru/technology_and_media/09/07/2020/5f0730bf9... ) it would be surprising if telegram isn't dealing with them in any way.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#82

Post by seniorivn »

cnst wrote: post #74
vldchk wrote: post #30

Here is the thing: Durov lies. There is no law in Russia which forces him to ban that channel, and no concept of “silent days” anymore. Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything. They pushed Google and Apple to remove links to Navalny application from search and from Apple Store (and Apple removes it only for Russia users, btw, unlike Telegram removes it for everyone), and Telegram was absolutel…

Remove it and replace it with what exactly?! Telegram remains the only mainstream free speech platform on the web today, with the least amount of censorship and the most resiliency against being taken down.

there is matrix, the best option, both secure and reasonably well made(element and alternative clients), but it miles behind telegram in terms of UI/UX even though it's on par with whatsapp/signal/etc

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#83

Post by cnst »

vldchk wrote: post #71
seniorivn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and buyers of those bonds are affiliated with Russia structures like VTB Capital bank or Russian Government investment fund named “Russian Fund of Direct Investments”. As far as i know, it's not true(meaning there are no signs/proof of that). It's entirely possible, durov does have connections in russian elite, after all he was the creator of vk.com russian most popular social network. Vk was owned by russian oligar…

I can share sources to Russian websites but will it tell you anything? https://www.rbc.ru/business/23/03/2021/605a3fbc9a79470b2eb35... They created a very elegant scheme when through a fictional Arabic investment fund they put russian government money (Government fund invests into Arabic fund which invests into bonds). It is kind of Russian classic and they did it a lot in the last. Nowadays Telegram Bonds are traded…

It's funny how standard business dealings of having subsidiaries and offshore investment vehicles are being viewed by the Russians as a "Russian classic" just because critical thinking overload. :-)

The article does not really describe anything controversial or out of the ordinary.

I'm sure many countries do similar investments and arrangements. For example, IDA Ireland has offices in the US, and runs ads on Bloomberg TV. How's RDIF that much different?

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#85

Post by dane-pgp »

saurik wrote: post #41

Apple pushing requirements on apps is also (supposedly) why a lot of apps (such as Instagram, which had explicitly come out to blame Apple for this) banned content of women breastfeeding, as Apple (due to Steve Jobs: there is some interesting stuff you can find on this) is so puritan. You can also find tons of other examples of Apple's influence making decisions about what large numbers of people can experience, ofte…

> Apple has thereby made an active choice to build a product that is bad for democracy

That's a good point, actually. If a company wants to claim that they are on the side of users and democracy, it needs to include in its threat modelling the possibility of "Are we the baddies?".

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#86

Post by EGreg »

cunidev wrote: post #70

While Telegram is seen as a "wild west" of free speech by many, its centralization and worrying lack of encryption for most "non-secret" chats is something to keep in mind when reading Durov's passionate claims. - https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-whatsapp-set... - https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/amp/multiple-encryption-f... Also, the optional E2EE encryption is way more limited (e.g., single-device,…

I would pick encrypted Telegram over Signal anyday, but I believe that decentralized solutions with open source backends, like MaidSAFE, Freenet, and to some extent Matrix.org are the future.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#87

Post by twelve40 »

vldchk wrote: post #30

Here is the thing: Durov lies. There is no law in Russia which forces him to ban that channel, and no concept of “silent days” anymore. Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything. They pushed Google and Apple to remove links to Navalny application from search and from Apple Store (and Apple removes it only for Russia users, btw, unlike Telegram removes it for everyone), and Telegram was absolutel…

what you wrote in the first part is incorrect.

The law that prohibits campaigning during the election is still very much there, just like in many other countries, just not one day in advance like it used to be - this is debunked in the other thread - https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4800223 Btw, strange you didn't quote any sources for your claim - just a claim.

> Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything

Yes, he starts the article by saying "has to follow rules set by Apple and Google", so he is not even talking about the Russian authorities. Apple and Google have been well known for swiftly taking down the apps that they think are troublesome for them.

Finally, Telegram was a massive channel for Belarus protests - in fact, Telegram was probably the main coordination mechanism for those - have you ever heard about Nexta?

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#88

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #15
echelon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is downvoting you? We should never support censorship or the erosion of privacy. Preservation of these two is essential for our democracy and freedom.

I've just lost the ability to edit posts. I was in the middle of an edit to add more commentary, and it failed. This hasn't ever happened to me on HN before. Can a moderator explain what is going on or why I'm being targeted? Edit button is completely gone on the above post. https://i.imgur.com/BnYuqx6.jpg

[deleted]

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#89

Post by twelve40 »

achikin wrote: post #5

Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. The problem is that according to the recent federal law - campaigning ban does not apply in case when voting lasts for several days.

yes it does, they just removed an extra day before that, here is a link: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4800223

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#90

Post by jwond »

vldchk wrote: post #30

Here is the thing: Durov lies. There is no law in Russia which forces him to ban that channel, and no concept of “silent days” anymore. Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything. They pushed Google and Apple to remove links to Navalny application from search and from Apple Store (and Apple removes it only for Russia users, btw, unlike Telegram removes it for everyone), and Telegram was absolutel…

> When there is still a channel where white men posting personal details of women and attack them — no action.

I’m not familiar with the situation you are referring to, but I’m curious why you specifically mentioned the race of these men. How is their race relevant?

Post reply on HN