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Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

telegra.ph

71–80 of 179 posts

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#71
post #30

Here is the thing: Durov lies. There is no law in Russia which forces him to ban that channel, and no concept of “silent days” anymore. Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything. They pushed Google and Apple to remove links to Navalny application from search and from Apple Store (and Apple removes it only for Russia users, btw, unlike Telegram removes it for everyone), and Telegram was absolutel…

>and buyers of those bonds are affiliated with Russia structures like VTB Capital bank or Russian Government investment fund named “Russian Fund of Direct Investments”. As far as i know, it's not true(meaning there are no signs/proof of that). It's entirely possible, durov does have connections in russian elite, after all he was the creator of vk.com russian most popular social network. Vk was owned by russian oligar…

I can share sources to Russian websites but will it tell you anything?

https://www.rbc.ru/business/23/03/2021/605a3fbc9a79470b2eb35...

They created a very elegant scheme when through a fictional Arabic investment fund they put russian government money (Government fund invests into Arabic fund which invests into bonds). It is kind of Russian classic and they did it a lot in the last.

Nowadays Telegram Bonds are traded at Saint-Petersburg stock exchange and there are a lot of rumors that Durov attends a lot of private parties in Russia for kids of oligarchs.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#72
post #46
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter blocks telegra.ph links for the last 3 years

A friend recently wanted to post something anonymously. Turns out that finding a webhost depends on having an email address, and email hosts depend on having a phone number, and phone numbers depend on a payment mechanism and - in case of prepaid - a government ID needs to be shown. Telegra.ph seems to be one of the few places where you can (with a reasonable amount of markup) just post things at will. I didn't know…

You can use use one of the web archive services to get a url to share if Telegraph is blocked. By combining the 2 services you can get what you want without identification.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#73
post #65
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your adversary is happy to block arbitrary network requests, why do they need to get the app removed from the app store? Can't they just block all requests it makes?

They obviously could, but these days everybody uses CDNs and shared resources so they'd probably end up blocking a lot more than just this app. For instance the app could well function completely offline if it embedded the list of candidates it supports, it which case they'd have to block all requests to the Google Play Store which would be rather heavy handed and unpopular.

I'm sure this was the easiest path this time.

They have in the past blocked large swaths of AWS to block this app:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16859299

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#74
post #30

Here is the thing: Durov lies. There is no law in Russia which forces him to ban that channel, and no concept of “silent days” anymore. Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything. They pushed Google and Apple to remove links to Navalny application from search and from Apple Store (and Apple removes it only for Russia users, btw, unlike Telegram removes it for everyone), and Telegram was absolutel…

Remove it and replace it with what exactly?!

Telegram remains the only mainstream free speech platform on the web today, with the least amount of censorship and the most resiliency against being taken down.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#75
I am somewhat confused by the argument offered here. Providing an application that helps voters to decide whom they can choose to vote for, or who the alternative candidates are in an election is not the same as campaigning.

From what I've found so far, I disagree with this interpretation. It's as if saying that publishing a list of people with their stances on a particular policy is the same as campaigning for them. It's not.

By this metric, a website like isidewith is campaigning, https://www.isidewith.com/, as are voting guides that help voters pick out candidates who back action on Climate Change, https://voteclimatepac.org/voters-guide/, or who are pro/anti-2A, https://www.nrapvf.org/grades/ / https://gunsensevoter.org/ . Are these campaigning as well?

Admittedly, the application differed from isidewith by focusing on a single issue - anti-totalitarianism, it did not do anything different that voteclimatepac, the NRA-PVF, Gun Sense Voter etc don't do. It was meant to match voters with candidates who already offer their preferred position - anti-totalitarianism. I don't see how this is campaigning.

Further, the app wasn't affiliated with most of the people it was recommending. While it was designed by Navalny, it recommended people across multiple parties. This fact weakens the argument even further.

Here is the app for you to judge for yourself, https://votesmart.appspot.com/ English translation: https://votesmart-appspot-com.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&...

As you will see, it doesn't advocate for a party or a candidate, but across parties and candidates based on a single issue - anti-totalitarianism.

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While Telegram has taken a stand against the Russian govt. in the past, I do not believe that past action is necessarily predictive of future results in this regard. Given that the new Kremlin, in particular, is famous for bringing its opposition under their thumbs and turning them into controlled opposition.

> With a flourish he sponsored lavish arts festivals for the most provocative modern artists in Moscow, then supported Orthodox fundamentalists, dressed all in black and carrying crosses, who in turn attacked the modern-art exhibitions. The Kremlin’s idea is to own all forms of political discourse, to not let any independent movements develop outside of its walls. Its Moscow can feel like an oligarchy in the morning and a democracy in the afternoon, a monarchy for dinner and a totalitarian state by bedtime.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/hi...

This assertion may seem conspiratorial. And it is. Though not guaranteed, it is well within the realm of possibility that the state leader bred by the KGB found ways to turn the screws on M. Durov to keep his hold on power. Given that he kills regularly for it. Should we consider it unlikely that he's willing to coerce others for it?

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#76
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is downvoting you? We should never support censorship or the erosion of privacy. Preservation of these two is essential for our democracy and freedom.

I've just lost the ability to edit posts. I was in the middle of an edit to add more commentary, and it failed. This hasn't ever happened to me on HN before. Can a moderator explain what is going on or why I'm being targeted? Edit button is completely gone on the above post. https://i.imgur.com/BnYuqx6.jpg

Try clicking on the post itself and seeing if that page has an edit button?

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#77
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that law does not apply for these elections that last several days https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4800223 The law allowing campaigning was passed in May 2021.

Your link contradicts what you're saying, no? >Согласно закону, предвыборная агитация должна быть завершена в 00:00 по местному времени первого дня голосования.

I think you are right. I was incorrect. Indeed that implies that campaining was prohibited from Friday on.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#78
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is downvoting you? We should never support censorship or the erosion of privacy. Preservation of these two is essential for our democracy and freedom.

Yesterday I could only make two posts on HN before HN temporarily banned me with the message "Please slow down. You are posting too fast." This kind of ban is only for a few hours. I don't know if this ban is automatically triggered or mod initiated but believe the trigger for it is when some comments of mine receive high upvotes and downvotes (perhaps "flagging" the comment as "controversial / inflammatory"). And I…

Hacker News caps scores at -4.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#79
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN has a time limit on how long you can edit posts after they go up - its not special its for everyone. You'd know about it but HN also has terrible design in terms of telling users what the heck is going on.

The post was less than five minutes old. I can still edit other posts which are older. Right now it's 19 minutes old (and uneditable), yet I can still edit a different 27 minute old comment. I crafted an edit URL for the post using its id, and I still can't edit it: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=28656231

Probably when something gets down-voted/flagged edit is disabled so you cant "remove the evidence".

But I'm just guessing HN internals are p proprietary.

Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app

#80
post #4

This is why apps suck. Steve Jobs got us into this mess by trying to monopolize the iPhone processor (and only allowed the web to bootstrap his platform). Complete control can be strong armed by dictators, and our spineless capitalists will bend to their will. The W3C needs to develop a standard for non-DOM, immediate mode painted, fully WASM apps that can access all of a device's hardware. Storage, cameras, network,…

Wouldn't that move the power from the app store owners to the browser owner? These are the same companies just a bit different market shares.
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