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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

dell.com

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#611

Post by BluePen8 »

zeven7 wrote: post #552
ypcx wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing this from my 2019 XPS 15 7590 i9 with (extended) 64 GB RAM. The OLED display quality is still the best any laptop can offer, but that's where it ends. Had countless issues with sleep, reboots after being "killed in sleep" for going over Windows sleep "battery drain limit" (can be increased in registry but hey), wifi/bt issues after wake-up, short battery endurance, fan noise (mitigated by undervolting w/ Thro…

I'll chime in as well from my 2020 XPS 17. This issue is incredibly frustrating. It's worth switching over, however I don't really know where to go for a premium laptop. I'm not very interested in a Mac. HP and Lenovo have given me tons of problems in the past (which is why I switched to Dell). From this thread it seems like several other vendors have similar problems to this Dell one. What options are there?

I'll be frank, the MacBooks are overpriced, and do have some of their own issues, but they're actually still the best choice.

At the very least based on my own experience you should avoid HP Elitebooks, and Microsoft Surfaces, also Asus Zenbooks, and Dell Inspirons.

...As you can tell from that list I've tried very hard to avoid paying the premium for a MacBook before giving in. They're still not perfect, but they're good enough that I am never going back to a Windows laptop.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#612

Post by thesuitonym »

fxtentacle wrote: post #446

I stopped using my Microsoft Surface Pro because it had the same issues. It's a clusterfuck of bad design decisions at Microsoft, the most offensive one being that they prioritize the execution of their scheduled spyware upload (telemetry) over honoring the agreement with the user that a sleeping PC will remain asleep unless the user takes action. It'll even install updates at night and then make reboot sounds to wak…

Far be it for me to defend Microsoft here, but I feel like if you leave unsaved documents open overnight, you are asking for trouble. Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me.

This whole post is actually pretty confusing to me. I don't use Windows that frequently myself, but my work laptop, my wife's laptop, my child's laptop, and my Surface Pro 1 all have Windows 10 on them, and this sort of thing has never happened to me. But I do my updates in a timely manner, shut down my PCs regularly, and only use sleep for temporary moments when I'm away from my PC.

I just feel like a lot of the problems people have with Windows 10 aren't really in the software, but are between the keyboard and chair.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#613

Post by _abox »

masklinn wrote: post #408
pomian wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I agree. It seems to be getting harder to set up hibernate as an option. Regular (non HN) users might not even figure out that hibernate is a possibility. But it definitely is a better option than sleep.

> But it definitely is a better option than sleep. It's the better option if you don't mind the longer time waking up, since RAM has to be restored from disk. Otherwise, sleep should be backed by hibernation on all machines (it certainly is on mac laptops, and I think it is on windows as well): in case of power loss during sleep, the machine falls back to waking from hibernation, but if there was no power loss it wak…

Macs do this. They hibernate to RAM and after about 1 hour (configurable with pmset I think) they wake up momentarily to hibernate to SSD.

The reason they don't write the hibernate image straight away and just power down after an hour is to eliminate writes to the SSD but I believe you can set that wait to 0.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#614

Post by chippiewill »

tablespoon wrote: post #515

> All newer Dell laptops now use the Microsoft Modern Standby. So let me guess: "modern" here is indicates a shitty new thing that doesn't work as well as the old thing. ...after further reading, yep: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev... > On occasion, the system stays in the active mode (with the screen off) for a longer interval of time. These longer active intervals occur for a variety o…

It's not just Microsoft's fault.

Intel have completely removed S3 sleep from the latest Tigerlake chips so even if you run Linux you end up with the same problem.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#615

Post by elcomet »

thesuitonym wrote: post #612
fxtentacle wrote: post #446

I stopped using my Microsoft Surface Pro because it had the same issues. It's a clusterfuck of bad design decisions at Microsoft, the most offensive one being that they prioritize the execution of their scheduled spyware upload (telemetry) over honoring the agreement with the user that a sleeping PC will remain asleep unless the user takes action. It'll even install updates at night and then make reboot sounds to wak…

Far be it for me to defend Microsoft here, but I feel like if you leave unsaved documents open overnight, you are asking for trouble. Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. This whole post is actually pretty confusing to me. I don't use Windows that frequently myself, but my work laptop, my wife's laptop, my child's laptop, and my Surface Pro 1 all have Windows 10 on them, and…

> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me.

Because on other computers it just works. And if the computer stops it will re-open your unsaved documents.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#616

Post by chippiewill »

6jQhWNYh wrote: post #409
filmgirlcw wrote: post #387

This is one of the main reasons I just returned my XPS 13 9310 and got a Framework instead. The sleep/standby/hibernate stuff is just bad. I don’t know if it is a Dell problem or a Windows problem or what, but it’s terrible. I’m primarily a Mac user but I haven’t had the same issue with other Windows laptops and the Dell has standby issues in Linux too so it’s just bad. And loud. And hot.

It's definitely a Windows issue. I've had it with non-XPS Dells and completely different brands like Eluktronics.

It's not Windows (although Microsoft did basically force it to happen).

Intel have just removed S3 sleep from the latest Tigerlake chip so there isn't an alternative.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#617

Post by jlund-molfese »

thesuitonym wrote: post #612
fxtentacle wrote: post #446

I stopped using my Microsoft Surface Pro because it had the same issues. It's a clusterfuck of bad design decisions at Microsoft, the most offensive one being that they prioritize the execution of their scheduled spyware upload (telemetry) over honoring the agreement with the user that a sleeping PC will remain asleep unless the user takes action. It'll even install updates at night and then make reboot sounds to wak…

Far be it for me to defend Microsoft here, but I feel like if you leave unsaved documents open overnight, you are asking for trouble. Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. This whole post is actually pretty confusing to me. I don't use Windows that frequently myself, but my work laptop, my wife's laptop, my child's laptop, and my Surface Pro 1 all have Windows 10 on them, and…

But I don’t think it’s an unrealistic expectation. A Linux server might have uptime measured in years, and the same thing is possible for a desktop (maybe you use your desktop as a home server, too)

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#618

Post by chippiewill »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #387

This is one of the main reasons I just returned my XPS 13 9310 and got a Framework instead. The sleep/standby/hibernate stuff is just bad. I don’t know if it is a Dell problem or a Windows problem or what, but it’s terrible. I’m primarily a Mac user but I haven’t had the same issue with other Windows laptops and the Dell has standby issues in Linux too so it’s just bad. And loud. And hot.

It's an Intel problem.

They just axed S3 sleep in the latest Tigerlake chips (which the 9310 use, and I assume Framework is using or will use in the future). You can't even workaround this by running Linux.

This more or less means that there isn't actually an alternative to modern standby other than hibernation at the hardware level any more (unless AMD continue to support it which there's a good chance of happening).

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#619

Post by fxtentacle »

thesuitonym wrote: post #612
fxtentacle wrote: post #446

I stopped using my Microsoft Surface Pro because it had the same issues. It's a clusterfuck of bad design decisions at Microsoft, the most offensive one being that they prioritize the execution of their scheduled spyware upload (telemetry) over honoring the agreement with the user that a sleeping PC will remain asleep unless the user takes action. It'll even install updates at night and then make reboot sounds to wak…

Far be it for me to defend Microsoft here, but I feel like if you leave unsaved documents open overnight, you are asking for trouble. Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me. This whole post is actually pretty confusing to me. I don't use Windows that frequently myself, but my work laptop, my wife's laptop, my child's laptop, and my Surface Pro 1 all have Windows 10 on them, and…

> Why a person would ever walk away from a computer without saving is beyond me.

In my case, it was mostly executables that I'm in the process of debugging and stepping through. I'm not aware of any debugger which can save and restore open file handles.

> I just feel like a lot of the problems people have with Windows 10 aren't really in the software, but are between the keyboard and chair.

I would have argued just like you before I encountered the cursed tablet. That thing had an integrated battery, so no matter what you tried, it could still turn on by itself if it wanted to. The only reliable way to make it stop making noises in the middle of the night was to thoroughly drain its battery.

That said, the Dell XPS support post that I commented on is by itself pretty detailed about all the issues that Dell machines are having with Windows 10. I think you'll believe me that Dell wouldn't publicly post that unless they had a lot of support requests related to it. So it's apparently a widespread issue.

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