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China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

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Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#481

Post by rtkwe »

monological wrote: post #415
thirdvect0r wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine living in a country that allows you to destroy the environment for a fake currency. Your worldview is ridiculous.

How do you think the dollar keeps its value? Do you understand that the reason it has value is because it’s backed by the US military, which provides peace and stability for industry to consume a vast amount of energy to produce goods that get shipped around using fossil fuel? Have you calculated the total energy expenditure of the entire US financial system, direct and indirect, and then compare it to proof-of-work…

That energy isn’t a fundamental requirement of the dollar as a currency though it’s a function of it but isn’t required. BTC on the other hand requires constant energy to process a fraction of the transactions.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#482

Post by photon-torpedo »

snarf21 wrote: post #202
crypot wrote: post #111

Other than white listing and black listing transactions by the miners and exchanges, and governments declaring it illegal, Bitcoin is 100% censorship resistant.

Serious question: In a place like China with the Great Firewall, can't they simply block crypto connections at the ISP level? Can't they more aggressively disallow VPN connections to locations outside of China? They might not be able to change the ledger but it seems like they could (will?) block access to them.

I think this is technically possible.

Relatedly, can they jam Starlink?

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#483

Post by tastyfreeze »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #454
reedjosh wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets not bear this then. Central Bank Digital Currency is just around the corner if crypto is banned. CBDC is an authoritarian's wet dream. Speak against the government--you're no longer allowed to transact in society. Retroactive tax...boom, negative balance.

What do you propose as a solution for central banks and monetary policy attempting to operate in structural stagnation [1]? Do you believe digital tulips will maintain their value as real productivity declines due to demographics? Physical cash can be inflated with relatively the same ease as a CBDC through QE. You're seeking a level of control and authority of monetary policy only accessible to nation states. We agr…

My desired solution is for central banks and their abusive monetary policy to die in a fire. One way to achieve that is to have many competing currencies that are not controlled by a central bank. If any are a worthy replacement for government fiat people will use it. But, that is precisely why governments will do their best to regulate use of competing currencies.

China has the most restrictive capital controls in the world. It is not surprising at all that they have banned a legitimate threat to their control over the country's money.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#484

Post by adrianN »

president wrote: post #455
adrianN wrote: post #263

Excellent news for the climate.

A narrow-minded argument. If something has a net positive for society, the increased energy consumption would be worth it.

My argument that it's a net negative for society because of carbon emissions (among other externalized costs).

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#485

Post by stiltzkin »

EveYoung wrote: post #300
dtwest wrote: post #159

This is interesting timing given what has been happening related to Evergrande. It is possible that the government is worried about money being moved out of the country, and cryptocurrency is one way of doing that.

How would crypto help with moving money out of a country if mining is banned?

You do not mining to exchange Yuan to crypto.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#486

Post by sudosysgen »

ksml wrote: post #479
arcticbull wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a negative sum wealth redistribution scheme the takes money from new entrants and gives it to miners and to old entrants. The miner portion is what makes it negative-sum. It doesn't meet the traditional definition, no, which is why I referred to it as a "distributed Ponzi scheme" - it's closer to an MLM in classical parlance. [edit] Here's the SEC definition: > A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that pays exi…

Based on your phrasing of the SEC definition, the real estate market also feels like it fits the bill :-/ Edit: parent comment was edited, originally said: > It actually matches the SEC definition of a Ponzi scheme haha, which happens to be a little bit less restrictive than a traditional definition. > It's a negative sum wealth redistribution scheme the takes money from new entrants and gives it to miners and to old…

Can't you rent real estate assets, making it positive sum?

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#487

Post by monological »

rtkwe wrote: post #481
monological wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think the dollar keeps its value? Do you understand that the reason it has value is because it’s backed by the US military, which provides peace and stability for industry to consume a vast amount of energy to produce goods that get shipped around using fossil fuel? Have you calculated the total energy expenditure of the entire US financial system, direct and indirect, and then compare it to proof-of-work…

That energy isn’t a fundamental requirement of the dollar as a currency though it’s a function of it but isn’t required. BTC on the other hand requires constant energy to process a fraction of the transactions.

Oh it’s not fundamental? What do you think would happen to the value of the dollar if the military didn’t exist and the US was invaded by a foreign county. Connect the dots.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#488

Post by R0b0t1 »

eggy wrote: post #352

Blockchain, not specifically crypto currencies, are also a means to operate anonymously outside of an authoritarian government. Sure there are gotchas with remaining anonymous, but I am sure China wouldn't want a blockchain-based, mesh, peer-to-peer, or distrubuted network, that could operate outside of the Great Firewall's ability to regulate or censor it. High-power, long-range WiFi and mesh networks would be hard…

A lot of the hardline pro-law FUD here is, I am pretty sure, astroturf. Same with all the comments that were pro-Apple in the phone scanning threads.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#489

Post by dnautics »

arcticbull wrote: post #438
monological wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think the dollar keeps its value? Do you understand that the reason it has value is because it’s backed by the US military, which provides peace and stability for industry to consume a vast amount of energy to produce goods that get shipped around using fossil fuel? Have you calculated the total energy expenditure of the entire US financial system, direct and indirect, and then compare it to proof-of-work…

> How do you think the dollar keeps its value? Base demand for dollars is created due to taxation. As the money supply is managed via fractional reserve lending, each new dollar that enters circulation is backed by the demand for repayment of that loan. When someone borrows money from a bank, the bank enters a negative balance in its ledger and the borrower gets a positive balance in their account. This is how money…

"Base demand"

I get that this is working econ theory, but is that even meaningful? Do you honestly think people hold dollars because "someone can use it to.pay taxes"?

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