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China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

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Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#201

Post by roenxi »

eli wrote: post #112
pid-1 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't downplay the environmental consequences of PoW, but the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt. It would be the perfect storm for mainstream crypto adoption.

I sincerely think the main motivation is to protect people from losing too much when the bubble pops.

The bubble has been ongoing for a decade now. I suppose the challenge will be what is the line in the sand where it isn't a bubble? There isn't a lot of good evidence it is in a bubble.

This thing also poses a real threat to SWIFT and anyone trying to put together a successor to SWIFT. The US has been weaponising international currency transfers for a while now, and China would be facing problems controlling capital flows if people could just send money internationally without much consequence. There are good, selfish, reasons for why governments would intervene.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#202

Post by snarf21 »

crypot wrote: post #111

Other than white listing and black listing transactions by the miners and exchanges, and governments declaring it illegal, Bitcoin is 100% censorship resistant.

Serious question: In a place like China with the Great Firewall, can't they simply block crypto connections at the ISP level? Can't they more aggressively disallow VPN connections to locations outside of China? They might not be able to change the ledger but it seems like they could (will?) block access to them.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#203

Post by datavirtue »

0FreedomInUSA wrote: post #35
mettamage wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of downvoting I decided to write this comment. I don't agree with the sentiment of the parent either, but: * Assume the best interpretation of a comment [1]. * Keep it on topic * Don't attack the person, also not implicitly (e.g. "please educate yourself", don't say that) Reread: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html One can claim many things about the parent comment. But it's all directed to the t…

Got it, will make better comments next time

Just be yourself.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#204

Post by Retric »

pid-1 wrote: post #179
gwbas1c wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. IE, if people want to use dollars, the US government can print more dollars to satisfy the demand. (And thus keep the value stable.) Cryptocurrency's volatile value is a result of its inabi…

> The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. I'm not following. By definition, inflation is what happens when the price of a currency is not stable. > Remember: Currency is not an investment. A good currency has a stable value over time; otherwise it's very difficult to conduct commerce Agreed. But in countries with high inflation, such as mine, you will lose money if all…

Stability operates on short and long time scales. 2% annual inflation means a currency is worth 99.994% as much tomorrow as it was today which in practice is generally fine.

Even fairly high inflation levels of say 7% annually can still be quite stable on a daily or monthly basis which is all you really need. As most people spend most of their paycheck every month and savings aren’t limited to the currency in question.

By comparison crypto coins tend to have much higher daily and monthly variations which isn’t a big deal for savings, but in practice it discourages their use for day to day expenses.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#205

Post by marcosdumay »

pskiba wrote: post #115
Graffur wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yours is the top comment on this thread and it's a bit surprising. When you say less than 5%, what are you talk about? Can you point to any sources that back that up?

Maybe if he meant less than 5% of miners make money. I could potentially believe this, given the competitive nature of mining. However, as an investment, as of right now, there is only a span of a few months where if you bought Bitcoin you would not be in the green right now.

Every bubble does that all the time until it bursts.

Did people find a useful reason to buy Bitcoin already? Something that creates value, instead of hopping to sell higher for the next sucker?

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#206

Post by unethical_ban »

pskiba wrote: post #164
mn678 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Why would any sane person move a large part of their assets into something as volatile as crypto? If you want to protect yourself against inflation, buy real estate or equities if your time horizon is long enough. Even fixed income once rates are a bit better. But for the average person please stay clear of crypto!

If your time horizon is long enough, volatility shouldn't matter. Historically speaking Bitcoin is getting less volatile with every market cycle. I would not be surprised if in the future its volatility is comparable to the S&P500. Why would any sane person invest in real estate? You have maintenance costs, property taxes, it's not liquid and you can go years with little growth. Not to mention if your area see's hard…

I can live on land. I can't live on a string.

You also ignore the premise being put forth, that Bitcoin as a currency still isn't ideal. You don't think "long term investment" with currency so much as short to medium term. Like, will bread and milk cost 10x as much next week?

"Stop thinking investment and start thinking survival" might be a good way to put it.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#207

Post by plebianRube »

jhgb wrote: post #88
trident5000 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define volatile. The only currency that has stood the test of time is gold, a private currency. Every fiat currency in history has failed. Probably because heads of state like to print it to solve their short term problems essentially robbing everyone with an inflation tax. I dont call that stable or just. I work and save and expect my currency to hold up and not be abused which is not happening currently. Edit: HN m…

Except gold is not a currency. It's a commodity. Gold coins used to be a currency in certain times and places. Insofar as they're not recognized anymore, at least where I live, they've actually failed.

I believe the Canadian maple series of gold and silver coins have some face value, and you can spend them like that if you wish. 1oz gold = 50CAD FV, and 1oz Silver = 5CAD if I'm not mistaken. However when you try to bring them across borders they are evaluated at their numanistic value.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#208

Post by datavirtue »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #125
avianlyric wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with the fundamentals of your argument, but growth can’t be unlimited. Eventually it’s starts slowing down, then those complacent middle class will start being less complacent and start demanding more freedom. I think it’s reasonable to say the CCP will keep their grip on power for as long as they can continue delivering wealth to the middle class, and lifting those in poverty into the middle class. Wha…

That newly freedom-thirsty middle class could be simply brutally suppressed by an automated police force, powered by AI-driven surveillance. The CCP is a long-term thinking government, I'm sure they are at least considering how it would work.

My bet is on good ole drugged troops over AI.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#209

Post by UncleMeat »

macinjosh wrote: post #178
jhgb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 emissions are Θ(P). I don't see how you could say this "does not correlate directly to CO2 emissions".

Its not complicated. It is not necessary for crypto PoW to be powered by CO2 emitting fuels. It can be powered with renewables. Therefore the power usage of Bitcoin can't be used to infer its environmental impact. You need to know how much of that usage was on the back of fossil fuels.

Energy is fungible. Unless those renewable-generated watts were unable to be used for other things, then all marginal use of energy uses emitting sources, since we are not yet at 100% green energy. There are a few exceptions where mining is done on grids that are at 100% green energy, but this is not the norm.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#210

Post by rastafang »

holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

I don't know where you got that 5% from but either way, you sound like you fell in the 95%.
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