Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 699 posts

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#131

Post by mn678 »

pid-1 wrote: post #59
holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

I won't downplay the environmental consequences of PoW, but the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt. It would be the perfect storm for mainstream crypto adoption.

Nonsense. Why would any sane person move a large part of their assets into something as volatile as crypto? If you want to protect yourself against inflation, buy real estate or equities if your time horizon is long enough. Even fixed income once rates are a bit better. But for the average person please stay clear of crypto!

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#132

Post by pbaka »

FabHK wrote: post #71
trident5000 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define volatile. The only currency that has stood the test of time is gold, a private currency. Every fiat currency in history has failed. Probably because heads of state like to print it to solve their short term problems essentially robbing everyone with an inflation tax. I dont call that stable or just. I work and save and expect my currency to hold up and not be abused which is not happening currently. Edit: HN m…

> Every fiat currency in history has failed. That's funny. The extant fiat currencies haven't failed. So, the only ones that have failed... are the failed ones. And those have failed, 100%, indeed.

But which one hasn't failed ?

All of Europe's have. All of Asia's have. The Euro is too new.

Only the dollar arguably has endured the last 150 years, depending on how you consider its three redefinition with the foundation of the Fed system, then Bretton Woods and then with the abandonment of the gold standard..

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#133

Post by jhgb »

Offpics wrote: post #66
holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

You should educate yourself. Energy consumption is an old myth and cryptocurrency pushes a lot of innovations in this field. There is a great documentary on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc .

Oh, the old "EDuCaTE UrsElf" argument? I'm sorry, but Bitcoin's energy use doesn't even pass the smell test. If you're consuming ~1% of global power generation while providing only ~2% of world's narrow money, that's not very optimistic. The fact that its deflationary nature makes it unappealing for actual cash transactions should make it even worse should you go for transaction volume comparisons.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#134

Post by aazaa »

> A statement posted on the Central Bank’s website today says that “virtual currency does not have the same legal status as legal currency.”

China has "banned Bitcoin" dozens of times over the last decade. I mean, this is an ancient and well-known meme involving a certain South Park clip after all.

Maybe this time is for real, but all of these media announcements have one thing in common. They always conflate the concept of "legal tender" and "legality."

The number of authorities around the world who have warned citizens about Bitcoin using language like "no legal tender status" and "risky" and "no government guarantee" is legion. Easily thousands of times. Every time "journalists" with no business reporting on tech, law, or foreign governments interpret this as a "ban." 99% of the time, nothing happens and there is no ban.

So, maybe this time is different. Over the last year, an initiative toward greater centralized control seems to be underway in China's tech and finance sectors. Disappearing of wealthy founders. Restrictions on video game consumption. The three red lines. The ejection of the Chinese mining industry.

Then again, maybe not.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#135

Post by selfhoster11 »

scrose wrote: post #107
selfhoster11 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not fine with having every one of my transactions being 100% transparent to my government. Because that's the only alternative to Bitcoin^W cryptocurrency, given that real cash is on its deathbed for some reason. Bitcoin may very transparent, but other currencies like Monero are much better in that regard. As to why >100% transparency is a desirable property, see recent regime changes and imagine how easy it wou…

Huh? Bitcoin records every transaction you make on a public ledger that anyone in the world can view. Anyone who knows your wallet address can track your purchases

Bitcoin does, but it's not the only blockchain currency around. Some have more robust privacy guarantees. As far as I can tell, this rule in China bans those too.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#136

Post by enkid »

pid-1 wrote: post #59
holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

I won't downplay the environmental consequences of PoW, but the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt. It would be the perfect storm for mainstream crypto adoption.

For China specifically, the reason to hate crypto currency is because it's a system where they don't have control. It's the same reason they are cracking down on the tech sector and Hong Kong. The CCP does not like having competitors for power or even something they don't have control over.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#137

Post by thinkmassive »

bmitc wrote: post #37
holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

> energy consumption is beyond acceptable Do you have any resources or studies to describe this more? I have really struggled to find actually nuanced discussions and unbiased sources for this. It’s all at the extremes of it’s either the worst thing ever to not a problem at all. I’d also be interested in comparisons to energy usage of say servers that run Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, etc.

Not supporting the parent’s opinion, but here’s a well researched report on the topic: https://nydig.com/bitcoin-net-zero/

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#138

Post by todd8 »

Here's an interesting take on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFp86n7QCf0

This analysis suggests that the value of tracking every financial transaction will eventually cause governments to all want to institute there own crypto currencies and eventually outlaw independent crypto currencies.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#140

Post by jhgb »

cortic wrote: post #101
avianlyric wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy is a zero sum game. Every watt you use for crypto mining is a watt not used for something more productive. Every watt of renewable power generated to power a crypto miner, is a watt not being used to reduce the use of non-renewables in the wider energy grid. I don’t care if your crypto gear is hooked up to a dedicated hydro plant, I care that the hydroplant is not connected to the wider grid and shutting down…

So you are against investment in renewables. That is not as progressive as you think.

Clearly he thinks that investments in renewables are a good thing, since those would also "reduce the use of non-renewables in the wider energy grid". So I'm puzzled why you'd think what you just wrote.
Post reply on HN