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China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

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Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#91
post #70
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only PoW cryptos need extensive electricity and hardware. Dont make crypto just bitcoins. If you really want to help make a dent in the energy consumption then people need to move away from PoW coins not from crypto in general.

Only PoW cryptocurrencies can be fairly distributed and avoid wealth concentration (although many fail to do so by concentrating most of emission in just the first few years).

This is not true, saturation points on staking pools exist to encourage people moving to other pools, this causes more decentralization not less. Additionally, from a hardware perspective setting up a pool takes significantly less capital compared to PoW mining.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#92
post #70
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only PoW cryptos need extensive electricity and hardware. Dont make crypto just bitcoins. If you really want to help make a dent in the energy consumption then people need to move away from PoW coins not from crypto in general.

Only PoW cryptocurrencies can be fairly distributed and avoid wealth concentration (although many fail to do so by concentrating most of emission in just the first few years).

Not true, you need capital to mine. Capital begets capital even on pow.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you incentivize anyone ever to abandon PoW coins rather than just adding non-PoW on the side? How exactly do you think you could dethrone Bitcoin, overcoming its gigantic first-mover advantage? I believe BTC could only come down with the rest of that "economy".

If you believe in free market capitalism, people should migrate from PoW to PoS coins, because PoS coins provide the same features with less expenses. In practice this won't happen, because PoS coins don't deliver the same features (security, decentralization, permissionless) or the market doesn't believe they do. Also the savings with PoS are not passed to the users of the cryptocurrency, but to the stakers, or big…

I believe in free market capitalism and you are incorrect. Please see my recent comments history for the "why PoW".

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#94

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

I am not fine with having every one of my transactions being 100% transparent to my government. Because that's the only alternative to Bitcoin^W cryptocurrency, given that real cash is on its deathbed for some reason. Bitcoin may very transparent, but other currencies like Monero are much better in that regard.

As to why >100% transparency is a desirable property, see recent regime changes and imagine how easy it would be to persecute the friends of the old regime by simply looking at their purchase history.

Edit:

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#95

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

Bitcoin wanted to be the world's currency, with a techno goldbug understanding of what money is. That shades a lot of what we think of as crypto.

There are a lot of different versions of the idea though. A lot of variety exists in crypto now, and very little is deterministic. I don't want to rule out the positive possibilities, and outlawing is broad brush. The PCB grunted at crypto here. We can do

That said, the variety of possibilities also creates danger. Underregulated stable coins, for example, get very sketchy once you reach a certain size. If they keep growing, start embellished with dolaralized interest payments and such.... you now have a rogue banking system issuing its own US dollars. Good luck with that. The scale of fraud, and treacherously borderline fraud can be epic. I don't think we should downplay these.

OTOH, this is true of every part of the financial sector. Lets not pretend the current way the financial sector is structured isn't riddled with the kinds of problems crypto poses.

A country with some clever CB people, even a small one, should be bold and bring crypto into the pax. There's a lot you can do with a designed-4-a-purpose currency, and crypto is a very viable way to do many things. Bitcoin's origins, and much of crypto's present, is secrecy oriented. But, it's actually more natural to design a cryptocurrency for transparency. That's useful in a lot of circumstances.

Take time to understand wtf is going on and regulate, ban or encourage specific things for specific reasons. There's a lot to be gained, not just a lot to be lost. A properly regulated stable coin might be a great idea.

Keynes has made a comeback during the pandemic, and people are relearning war era ideas about controlling inflation. In that context and considering 2021's low interest rates, national savings bonds will probably soon be considered in various places. You don't need crypto to do this, but it does give you more flexibility in how you do it.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#96
It's not inconceivable that we could wind up in a period of hyperinflation where bitcoin (or some token) could be used to in a way similar to the Plano Real in Brasil back in the '90s. It could actually have a stabilizing (mostly psychological) effect, should things go haywire with fiat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plano_Real

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#97
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is currently facing electricity and chip shortages. Banning crypto in the EU would be an acceptable measure for addressing that.

Only PoW cryptos need extensive electricity and hardware. Its completely absurd to ban crypto. Thats like if you would ban all motorized vehicles to get rid of coal blasting diesel trucks without catalytic converter. Needless to say that its also technically impossible to ban crypto. Its like banning torrents or even harder and we all know torrent was attacked heavily in the past but it did not go away.

Just ban the fiat exchanges.

The hardcore crypto types would carry on using it but like 95% would give up - that's sufficient.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#98

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

Define volatile. The only currency that has stood the test of time is gold, a private currency. Every fiat currency in history has failed. Probably because heads of state like to print it to solve their short term problems essentially robbing everyone with an inflation tax. I dont call that stable or just. I work and save and expect my currency to hold up and not be abused which is not happening currently. Edit: HN m…

> The only currency that has stood the test of time is gold, a private currency.

I'm curious about what leads you to claim that gold is "a private currency". Can you elaborate on the rationale behind your claim?

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% I find it amusing how casually you just made up a statistic and used it as justification to ban something. Here's an actual statistic: 100% of people who held Bitcoin for longer than 4 years are up on their investment. edit: Lots of downvotes for an easily verifiable fact. Anyone can look at the BTC chart and see that there is no 4 year span where the pri…

Even more amusing to call what is supposed to be a currency, an “investment”.

Nitpicking based on your definition of "investment" isn't really a dig at Bitcoin. I would argue that even fiat currencies are often used as investments to hedge against various types of risks. Bitcoin is not "supposed" to be anything, it's just a technology that has different uses for different people. Something that outperforms a majority of investments is certainly an investment to anyone who isn't gatekeeping.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#100
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lastly, I don’t know anybody invested in crypto that hasn’t made money, so anecdotally that indicates the number is much higher than 5%. You make money when you exit and sell the asset for cash. Have they sold ?

I thought this "asset" was supposed to replace cash. Why would you "sell it for cash"? Other than an equivalent for selling US dollars for Euros.

> I thought this "asset" was supposed to replace cash.

When you can buy food, house/rent and the doctor accepts bitcoins it will become cash.

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