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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

dell.com

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#151

Post by lozenge »

harlekein wrote: post #65
gotstad wrote: post #54

I will never buy a Dell XPS laptop again. The exterior build quality seems very good, but the internals are such a mess. I cannot count how many times I have been biking home from work and heard in my headphones "Two devices connected", realizing that my Dell XPS had woken up and would - once again - be red hot when I arrived home and pulled it out of my bag.

I've had three generations of the XPS 13. The first I had had a few issues, but fixable. (Even though I agree, this shouldn't even have occurred) The second one was flawless. The last one was worse than the first and it's my last. I've set my sights on Lenovo now. X1 Carbon is supposed to be really good for Linux and you can buy it with Ubuntu or no OS installed.

I returned my X1 Carbon due to unsolvable audio latency/jitter issues on Windows. Out of the box, just watching YouTube was impossible.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#152

Post by tomp »

jraph wrote: post #134
tomp wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using macs for the past 10 years, and I've never had this problem. I've never even thought about it! I close the lid, I open it, it just works. Maybe it's just my (2013 Pro and M1 Air), or maybe in the meantime the quality dipped... All in all, as I often say, the best advertisement for Apple is all the other computers. > I've taken the habit of checking that the computer actually went to sleep before putti…

Good for you. You probably happen to use your Macs in a way you don't hit those bugs, and didn't have to deal with faulty hardware. I'm sure things are flawless most of the time too. My computers also go to sleep reliably. They are professional hardware, of good quality, and from different brands. I'm sure other models of other brands or of the same brands have quirks, or that there are people who have problems with…

Sure, but for a Mac, it's a "bug" or "faulty hardware". For XPS (and presumably many other Windows laptops), it's policy.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#153

Post by JonyEpsilon »

dTal wrote: post #130
JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

Something seems a bit off with your numbers. If you're losing 5% of your battery "overnight" (at least 8 hours I assume), and you have the larger 86Wh battery, that implies a discharge rate of only 537mW. 900mw - nearly a whole watt - seems very high! Easily enough to cause noticeable warming - a running modern laptop at idle only uses 3-6 watts.

You're right, checked my notes and it loses 8% on average over 8 hours.

Agree that 900mW is high given that it's not supposed to be doing anything. It is what it is though ... haven't found a way to improve that.

Re. the comparison to idle power, I suppose there's a reason S1 is called "sleep2idle"!!

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#154

Post by campl3r »

FlyingAvatar wrote: post #128
reitzensteinm wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used. The thermals are awful under moderate CPU use, the fan spins when using an external monitor, the battery vampire drains when it's shut for an extended time instead of saving memory to disk and shutting off. I think what really happens is people compare $1k Dells with $3k Apples. I'm looking forward to an M1X MBP, though. That may legitima…

Regarding the problem discussed in the article, the Dell could easily cost $3,000, and the problem would not exist a $1000 MacBook, even an Intel one. In this case, I think it’s Apple’s proper prioritization of features. Probably also that Apple is able to do this because they don’t have to work on dozens of different models at the same time. It’s amazing to me that no major PC manufacturers have really done this yet…

The problem discussed in the article happens for MacBooks too

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#155

Post by JonyEpsilon »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #129
JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to tur…

You can disable network connected standby with group policy. I did try that when running Windows on my machine, and it didn't improve the randomly-getting-hot-when-asleep for me.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#156

Post by hetspookjee »

I really wonder what still drives people to Dell? Their products looks marvelous on the tech sheet, and that's also where the marvel ends. In my current career I've yet to touch a Dell laptop that doesn't try to melt itself by simply turning on, or fails to respond to touching the power button. It's as if the operation of the Power Button is a schrodinger cat.

Any corporation that is operating exclusively on Dell I deem to regard as a cost mitigation corporation that does not have their developers at their first place. I believe that no sane developer will opt for Dell's products, but rather go with Lenovo or Apple.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#157

Post by lmilcin »

znpy wrote: post #81
lmilcin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't understand how people put up with not being able to control what they primary machines are doing. For that reason my primary work machine can currently only be Linux. I have Windows, but this one is only for stuff that is incompatible with Linux. I actually have Linux PC and a separate Linux laptop (Thinkpad T440s). That laptop runs super cool once I debugged all the sources of power usage. Which is quit…

> I actually have Linux PC and a separate Linux laptop (Thinkpad T440s). > That laptop runs super cool once I debugged all the sources of power usage. I have a T440 which runs quite hot, where did you look for sources of power usage (beyond powertop) ?

There is a difference between T440 and T440s. T440s is already power optimized and runs integrated GPU vs T440 which is more normal laptop with discrete graphics.

I used mostly powertop but this is less reliable source of information when you are running discrete graphics card.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#158

Post by Macha »

joeberon wrote: post #150
Macha wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dell puts it in writing, Apple puts their fingers in their ears (butterfly keyboards, "you're holding it wrong").

So your justification for Dell voiding warranty upon putting the laptop in the bag on standby is that reads notes Apple...does not void the warranty, and that it is somehow virtuous to explicitly void warranty instead of honouring warranty? Sorry, but your logic is completely insane.

I'm not justifying Dell here, I'm just replying to the comment that you can somehow avoid these issues with Apple.

I have had experience with my last personally owned Apple products fighting them to honour the warranty. Maybe they're better in the US, but it's not evident to me that that's something you can rely on: https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple-admits-faulty-macbook-...

I agree with the idea that Dell should still be made honour the warranty, via court proceedings if they hold out too long, just as has occasionally been needed of Apple in the past.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#159

Post by vertis »

neuromancer2600 wrote: post #133

I had a Dell XPS 9310 until about 3 months ago when suddenly one of the fans died on me for no obvious reasons while I was in quarantine. Given that the fans are now soldered onto the mainboard, Dell was offering me to repair this for almost the same amount I paid for the whole laptop 2 years earlier. Needless to say that this was the last time I will buy a Dell. Since I am located in Asia, I also went to one of the…

Apple as well. I have a 2018 15" Macbook Pro with problems:

  - The battery is dying
  - The touchbar flickers whenever it is 'off' - a hardware fault that requires the full top case to replaced[1] - Quotes of $400-1200.
And things that aren't technically problems but still have the same, can't do anything about it stuck with the problem vibe:

  - I keep running out of space, but it's soldered to the logic board 
  - Keyboard is one of those shitty butterfly keyboards
  - It's always heat throttling
Granted, I might be able to get some of them fixed, but not without major inconvenience of being without my laptop for some period of time.

I've used Macs since the Apple Mac IIx, but I really hate the can't fix your own computer thing that has taken over in the last few years, for both Apple and others.

If Framework[2] offered a 15" or 17" version, I would be there in a heartbeat, but the 13" is just too small considering I don't use an external monitor.

[1]: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2017-mbp-touchbar-flash... [2]: https://frame.work

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#160

Post by gibba999 »

_Microft wrote: post #17
gibba999 wrote: post #6

I've had hibernated laptops wake up for whatever reasons in bags before. They get super-hot and shut down. Come to think of it, they were Dells. Perhaps some switch is not properly debounced or something.

I once investigated why a PC occasionally turned on all by itself and at first suspected that something on the network might be sending wake on LAN packets. It turned out that the PC was only in sleep mode and not hibernating and that Windows can wake it up from there, e.g. because of scheduled maintenance. What was even more surprising, it will go back to sleep once it is done. You might want to check the event view…

I don't run Windows. I believe I was running Ubuntu at the time this was a problem, possibly Debian. This was a few years back.
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