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Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

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Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#351

Post by dkonofalski »

fxtentacle wrote: post #58
threatofrain wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is complying with court rulings, including the judgment that Apple's contract with Epic is valid and enforceable. Apple could hypothetically ban all of Epic's accounts forever, but only the Fortnite account is banned. This appears to be a win for... payment vendors. At this point Epic can only hope for legislative action. Also on the "reasonableness" of Epic's promises... I'm not sure why making a pinky promise…

In reality, though, Apple would be throwing half of their game developers under the bus if they disable the Unreal Engine account. So if Epic can bait them to do that, they'll have plenty of frustrated developers to push public anti-Apple sentiment.

As long as those developers can still test their games on the platform, there will only be anti-Epic sentiment. Every game developer using the Unreal Engine is seeing this play out just like we are and they're seeing that it's Epic's actions that are causing that issue. With the state of game engines today, many may even consider moving away from Unreal for future games specifically because of Epic's actions.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#352

Post by jacquesm »

simonh wrote: post #109
jacquesm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cook said that Apple was not thinking about money at all, and Fortnite's revenue was not a consideration. That's a bald faced lie. Of course it is about the money.

Apple is giving up a lot of money, likely hundreds of millions, by not letting Fortnite back in. You could argue that in the long term Apple might be calculating that the fear effect on other companies might pay that back, but that's highly arguable. It's unarguable they are giving up a serious amount of reliable income to make this point.

You are missing the wood for the trees here: Apple may give up some money for the Fortnite game, but meanwhile they get to hold on to the money they rake in on other parties' products. If they accepted the Fortnite change then they would lose that other money, which absolutely dwarfs the money made on Fortnite.

I'm a bit surprised that this needs to be explained.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#353

Post by chrischen »

sam0x17 wrote: post #251
dimitrios1 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you want to sell a valuable, consumer friendly product that is cheaper than some alternatives and will save people money, but in this case, in a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar store says "we agree to stock your product, and will take 30% off the top for our troubles." Would we be saying the same things? It's the same dynamic, in my view.

This analogy only works if you modify it: There are only two chains of brick and mortar store in the world and one with double digit market share (Apple) has decided to take 30% off the top for all goods sold in all of their stores and have banned products from having any indication on their packaging that they can be purchased elsewhere for different pricing. Entering any store also requires an extremely expensive c…

An App distributed on the immensely popular iOS platform can be used to advertise alternative platforms at different pricing. The “fair” price if this was allowed to happen would be a 0% cut since no one in their right mind would pay any amount extra if given the option.

The only real restriction Apple currently has is that apps should do no such advertising of alternative platforms (payment methods).

All arguments about the fairness of this are moot because see Netflix, which happily complies with these rules and avoids Apple’s 30% cut. https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/31/netflix-stops-paying-the-a...

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#354

Post by moomin »

mzkply wrote: post #350
kllrnohj wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users Of course they are, that's Apple's standard business relationship practice. See also why Mac's still don't have an Nvidia GPU option, because Apple & Nvidia got in some spat a decade ago and Apple has been holding a grudge ever since. The more Apple brings stuff in-house the less this matters to the bottom line, but it…

I mean, for a company eagerly (and correctly) removing the headphone jack for phones, it's the least surprising thing to remove GPU options. All that's left is RAM and HDD.

They're also removing it from iPads, which is a nightmare for anyone with small children.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#355

Post by ehnto »

mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

> I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part.

Are they businesses or school children?

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#356

Post by jensensbutton »

spzb wrote: post #307
Salgat wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like "sticking it to them" to me. The alternative is that Apple lets them back on, stops paying for an expensive lawsuit, and gets extra revenue from fortnite.

Sounds like standard lawyer behaviour. They’re being paid by Apple to look after Apple’s interests.

Are you saying Apple execs have zero say in the strategy they choose to pursue regarding the spat with Epic?

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#357

Post by ehnto »

davidw wrote: post #339
mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

I tried to explain the details to my son, but he's just disappointed that he can't play a game he liked. He wants to buy a Windows computer and is saving up for it. Trying to get him interested in writing a bit of code, which to me is more fun in some ways than playing games, without pushing it too hard, and so far no luck.

Have you been framing the coding as a way to make games? Basically the only reason I'm here was because I thought making games would be rad, then I realized programming on it's own is pretty rad, and then eventually adult life showed up and it was a natural step to make it a career.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#358

Post by MomoXenosaga »

jungturk wrote: post #317
wvenable wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the TV manufacturer didn't even need retail distribution because they have their own warehouses, trucks, etc and will gladly send you a TV for $0 and charge on-device subscription fees to cover it. But sadly, you bought your home in a neighborhood with an HOA, and even though you own your home, the HOA requires all retail purchases have to go through them, and they take a 30% cut of everything and they won't…

Great analogy. Is that ok? It would seem that people entered the contract together without duress? Are there other neighborhoods? Run by other HOAs with better terms? Isn't it a market contest at that point to see which one buyers will prefer?

No it would not be okay, factories used to pay their workers with coupons to be spent exclusively in company stores.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#359

Post by sixstringtheory »

wvenable wrote: post #331
sixstringtheory wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you’d have a different situation. The warehouses, trucks etc are the app store and iPhones. In order for that TV manufacturer to have their own, they’d have to build their own devices, OS and cloud services.

The iPhone is your house -- you own that. The HOA is Apple -- the people who make the rules. The trucks and warehouses are the servers and the internet. Epic already runs a store they don't need the app store to distribute their apps and do payments. They're only required because Apple gives them no other option.

Apple isn’t an HOA, HOAs dictate what people can do with houses that the HOA had no hand in building. Apple built the houses and the logistics network that made building and selling them possible.

Also, the majority of people do not own their houses, banks do. Try financing a house and then stop servicing your loan. That’s essentially what Epic has done: breached contract.

Epic’s “store” is an app, and evidently they do need Apple to distribute it to Apple devices, unless you can tell me how to install it right now on my device?

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#360

Post by cheeze »

Animats wrote: post #305

I would not be surprised if Epic launched a phone to compete with Apple. Epic partners with Tencent in China for games. Tencent sells a "gamer phone", the Black Shark.[1] 90Hz display, liquid cooled. All Epic needs to do is offer that in the US. With a bit of marketing effort, Epic could make their phone the one the cool middle school kids want. Instead of one of those slow Apple old-people phones. [1] https://www.gi…

> liquid cooled

What!? That's interesting. Guessing it's 'vapor cooled'?

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