Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

daringfireball.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 468 posts

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#281

Post by Salgat »

sendtown_expwy wrote: post #259
mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

"Fortnite will be blacklisted from the Apple ecosystem until the exhaustion of all court appeals" It's not about sticking it to them. It's to increase the cost of their appeals and pressure them to drop the case.

That sounds like "sticking it to them" to me. The alternative is that Apple lets them back on, stops paying for an expensive lawsuit, and gets extra revenue from fortnite.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#282

Post by stephenr »

kllrnohj wrote: post #246
mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

> But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users Of course they are, that's Apple's standard business relationship practice. See also why Mac's still don't have an Nvidia GPU option, because Apple & Nvidia got in some spat a decade ago and Apple has been holding a grudge ever since. The more Apple brings stuff in-house the less this matters to the bottom line, but it…

s/got in a spat/had years of repeated customer issues because of GPUs shitting the bed/

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#283

Post by [deleted] »

kerng wrote: post #240
cortesoft wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily agree with Apple here, but couldn't your same arguments be made against Epic? They want to "stick it" to Apple and are harming their customers in the mean time? What this comes down to is an argument over money, and what percentage apple should get of that money. I don't think either company has a moral high ground in their negotiations on what percentage apple deserves.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly. Apple is just being a bully.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#284

Post by rdsnsca »

ye_olde_gamer wrote: post #238
Paianni wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do Epic's games benefit users in meaningful ways over any of the other non-exploitative games on the App Store?

Fortnite notwithstanding, Epic also makes the Unreal Engine, which is one of the biggest ones alongside Unity -- especially for cross-platform games. Hindering iOS development of UE will affect a lot of other game devs, both huge and indie.

Unreal Engine is under a different developer license than the one Apple canceled, though the judge did rule it would be legal for Apple to cancel all of Epics licences.

"(2) a declaration that (i) Apple's termination of the DPLA and the related agreements between Epic Games and Apple was valid, lawful, and enforceable, and (ii) Apple has the contractual right to terminate its DPLA with any or all of Epic Games' wholly owned subsidiaries, affiliates, and/or other entities under Epic Games' control at any time and at Apple's sole discretion."

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#285

Post by swebs »

stiltzkin wrote: post #266
Mikeb85 wrote: post #257

And this is why I refuse to give Apple any money whatsoever (also Microsoft for past shenanigans). User freedom matters. At least on Android, you can sideload apps (very easily too these days) if Google (or Samsung or Huawei or whichever app store you have) decides to ban an app. And Linux of course is completely free.

Good luck playing Fortnite on a Linux smartphone.

It would be a reasonable possibility if Tim Sweeny wasn't such a raging hypocrite.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#286

Post by smachiz »

gameswithgo wrote: post #33
jasode wrote: post #8

It's interesting to compare the situation Epic got itself into with previous episodes of Facebook & Google breaking Apple's rules. When Facebook and Google misused Developer Enterprise certificates to go beyond internal testing and distribute apps to end-consumers , Apple revoked their accounts. Both Facebook & Google simply admitted they screwed up and Apple reinstated their accounts.[1] No lawsuits. Epic broke Appl…

Tim is in the fight for idealogical reasons, not calculated business ones.

No he isn't. If he was, he'd go after Xbox and PS stores as well which also take 30%.

But they make up like 70% of the revenue for Fortnite, so they haven't picked that fight.

They went after the bottom 20% of their revenue. That is exactly a calculated business fight.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#287

Post by [deleted] »

withinboredom wrote: post #250
cptskippy wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same might be true of Fortnite It would seem that Fortnite's demographic is preteen kids. Are they playing Fortnite on their parent's device or one they own? If it's the later then Apple could be fostering a lifelong mistrust or dislike for their platform. If it's the former then Parents might just install another App for them and that's the end of Fortnite. I guess it comes down to how many people are willing…

I think many of them (including me) were waiting for this to play out. I can remember walking into a cell phone store years and years ago to look around. I remember overhearing this: Kid: I really like this phone. Dad: That’s a Windows Phone, you don’t want that. It doesn’t have that many apps. You want an Android because you get all the apps out there. I can see a similar argument for Android vs. Apple now. “Get And…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#288

Post by gpm »

simonh wrote: post #161
jasode wrote: post #8

It's interesting to compare the situation Epic got itself into with previous episodes of Facebook & Google breaking Apple's rules. When Facebook and Google misused Developer Enterprise certificates to go beyond internal testing and distribute apps to end-consumers , Apple revoked their accounts. Both Facebook & Google simply admitted they screwed up and Apple reinstated their accounts.[1] No lawsuits. Epic broke Appl…

Epic is very clearly and definitely not agreeing to follow the App Store rules. They are appealing the judgement precisely because they do not agree with the App Store rules. Trying to overturn them is not agreeing to them. Epic are agreeing to comply with the court order, for now, but they are not agreeing to the rules. This is not semantics, Apple's offer was that if Epic dropped he suit, they would be let back in.…

They are very clearly agreeing to follow the app store rules.

They're also trying to force them to change, but they are very clearly agreeing to follow whatever the rules are at all times.

The rules do not include "you cannot sue us" or "you cannot appeal decisions". If apple tried to put those in the rules, the court would quickly remove them from the rules, but also Apple did not, and almost certainly will not even attempt to put them in the rules.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#289

Post by syshum »

mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

Where you are wrong is believing Apple considers its users customers...

They do not, this clear by the way they handle the ecosystem. See a customer buys something from a company, after which they own it

Apple on the other hand does not have customers, they can not because they do not sell anything, dont be fooled by the high prices, and verbiage that indicates you are "buying" something, marketing that in a sane and just society would be considered illegal as deceptive

No no, you simply rent the device from apple for a period of time determined by apple, and are given permission to use the device in ways only the owner (Apple) approves.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#290

Post by wvenable »

jungturk wrote: post #272
gambiting wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that it's not. The ruling clearly stated that Apple has to allow other payment providers inside the apps, but obviously anything sold on the App Store can still attract the 30% payment fee. In your example, it's like if you bought a TV from Walmart, took it home, and then any content you wanted to buy on that TV had to have a 30% fee paid to walmart since....that's where you bought it originally? It doesn't ma…

What if the TV manufacturer could set a $0 retail price on the television and then charge the user on-device subscription fees to recoup a profit? Would Walmart be interested in that? Seems like their retail cut would be sliced to $0 in that situation despite doing the retail work.

What if the TV manufacturer didn't even need retail distribution because they have their own warehouses, trucks, etc and will gladly send you a TV for $0 and charge on-device subscription fees to cover it.

But sadly, you bought your home in a neighborhood with an HOA, and even though you own your home, the HOA requires all retail purchases have to go through them, and they take a 30% cut of everything and they won't let you order that TV directly from the manufacturer to put in your house.

But this is ok, because this is what you agreed to when you bought your home.

Post reply on HN