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Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

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Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you might recall - Apple did retaliate previously by also banning an associated Epic Account (for Unreal Engine and such) but was later legally forced not to [1] 1: https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/9/21492334/epic-fortnite-ap...

… in a preliminary injunction that "[...] will remain in force until the disposition of this case" (pg 38, bottom), so once the appeals process has run its course, Apple is no longer bound by this. https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/21949772/g... That said, Epic could always try to get a further injunction on this, and I don't really see an upside for Apple from banning further accounts.

I appreciate this - I should have expanded on my original post with the appeals disclaimer to clarify.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#292

Next epic lawsuit: Apple must have a justified reason for banning a game / account that is outlined in their TOS. And the exact specific reason must be given in writing so it can be clearly addressed. I mean think about it. It's not just about a feud, the games are literally barred on all computers of a specific type (iOS computers). That's like 1/5 (probably more) of the computing screen that is looked at daily by a…

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Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#293
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly. Apple is just being a bully.

Imagine you want to sell a valuable, consumer friendly product that is cheaper than some alternatives and will save people money, but in this case, in a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar store says "we agree to stock your product, and will take 30% off the top for our troubles." Would we be saying the same things? It's the same dynamic, in my view.

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Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Apple won in court here, but I think they're losing the public perception game pretty badly. I've never been a big Apple fan - and I speak up about it on various forums - up until about two years ago, no one really cared. These last two years... The Anti-Apple sentiment is hitting HARD . Frankly - It was always an abusive company ("my way or the high way" seems like it could be their company motto), but…

> …I think they're losing the public perception game pretty badly. Outside of HN and other niche media properties this is an extremely obscure battle. > …now the products just aren't that good, and it shows. Does it though? Apple recently reported an almost-50% YoY increase in iPhone sales. The iPad had its best June quarter in nearly a decade. The Mac set a new June quarter revenue record. The last four quarters hav…

I think it does matter - objectively. It doesn't matter how many consumers you have on your platform, if you don't have content creators you're on life support.

Right now, Apple is still middle of the road - The money in their apps ecosystem is holding a lot of developers there, but I think they're royally fucked in every legal district except the US with regards to the current software distribution model. And honestly - that's simply because anti-trust/monopoly regulation in the US is an unfathomable joke at the moment (it helps that we house most of the tech monopolies, so from a nationalistic perspective, I understand that the status quo is making a lot of people a lot of money).

So does it matter this quarter? Eh - almost certainly not. Will it matter in 10 years? Almost certainly yes.

That said, who knows - Apple is damn good at marketing still, and it's possible they can leverage the M1 machines into a dominant position.

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As for this year - We're seeing consumer spending in electronics up across the board, mostly thanks to incentives from covid (cash infusions, more people using devices for school/work, more people feel stuck at home and consume digital services). And Apple has a good supply chain in place to whether the current chip shortages, pushing consumers to buy products from Apple simply because they're available. Hell, Lenovo revenue is also up 50% in the last year, and Samsung is up nearly 20% this last quarter. Selling digital devices is a good spot to be in during a lockdown of physical spaces.

Again, maybe Apple will be able to ride the wave with the M1 devices, but I think extrapolating out from sales during Covid isn't all that meaningful.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#297
As a developer, I can understand wanting to have a separate IAP, but this should add another level. If I create something for sale within Fortnite, I don't want to share that profit with Epic. I want to use my own IAP. If Apple has to provide alternative IAP for creators/developers on their platform, the developers should also have to provide alternative IAP for creators within their platform/app.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#298
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly. Apple is just being a bully.

The judge did say Apple has a right to collect a commission , but did't rule if 30 % was fair. "First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collec…

yeah, reasonable commmission seems like 2-4 percent here. I don't think consumers should have to pay more for it.

And most important, apps should have no restrictions whatsover to have payments inside their own app ecosystem!

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that it's not. The ruling clearly stated that Apple has to allow other payment providers inside the apps, but obviously anything sold on the App Store can still attract the 30% payment fee. In your example, it's like if you bought a TV from Walmart, took it home, and then any content you wanted to buy on that TV had to have a 30% fee paid to walmart since....that's where you bought it originally? It doesn't ma…

What about in app payments in XBox or PS4? It will not surprise you to know they also take 30%. I can't help but notice that Fortnite is also available in the PS4 store as well. This is simply Epic doing their own money grab against the the platform they can most afford to alienate: >The documents show that from March 2018 to July 2020, the >breakdown of Fortnite revenue by platform was as follows: >PS4: 46.8% >Xbox…

> What about in app payments in XBox or PS4? It will not surprise you to know they also take 30%.

What about it? It's the same kind of anticompetitive practice. Except that Apple devices are used by billions every day across whole software market and consoles are entertainment devices used with much narrower market impact. Punishing them is less urgent.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#300

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

Yep. The time is really good for a new entry in the OS landscape. I'd jump ship pretty easily to anything that isn't windows.

The issue is vertical hardware integration. None of the current mainstream phone brands are good at both.
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