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Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

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Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#231

Post by itwy »

mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

Exactly this. I bought iPad Pro to play Fortnite with my nephew, and in less than a month it was removed. Epic broke the agreement, fine remove them from the App Store, but there's no reason to not being able to install the game from an external source except for Apple's greed. I, for one, not going to purchase anything from Apple anymore. I spent over 20k on Apple devices in the last 8 years or so.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#232

Post by criddell »

jasode wrote: post #8

It's interesting to compare the situation Epic got itself into with previous episodes of Facebook & Google breaking Apple's rules. When Facebook and Google misused Developer Enterprise certificates to go beyond internal testing and distribute apps to end-consumers , Apple revoked their accounts. Both Facebook & Google simply admitted they screwed up and Apple reinstated their accounts.[1] No lawsuits. Epic broke Appl…

> Epic promises they will comply

They also made that promise when they opened their developer account. Do you think they really mean it this time?

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#233

Post by judge2020 »

maxsilver wrote: post #169
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #104

That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR campaign and then sued you? After all this you offer them to allow Fortnite back if they reverse what they've done that breached the contract. Instead, they: - Reject the offer - Carry on smearing you - Lose the court case - Sweeney says they wouldn’t release iO…

The problem with this logic, is that Apple isn't really a "business" in this case. Epic and Apple aren't really "business partners". Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity with none of the responsibilities or checks on authority that a real government has. You can sue the Post Office, lose your case, and know they can't retaliate by stealing all your mail forever. You can sue the Department o…

> for the same reason that Comcast shouldn't even be allowed to decide what websites or services you do/don't use.

Internet is not regulated like this. ISPs can and do ban you for torrenting or going to certain websites because they're not a general utility.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#234

Post by judge2020 »

Jensson wrote: post #206
abduhl wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow acting like Not-X makes you X? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, is organized under state laws explicitly as a duck, and sits on top of the water like a duck, it’s an eagle?

No, the argument isn't "Apple is like a government since Apple is retaliating". The argument is "Apple is like a government and therefore shouldn't be allowed to retaliate". And no, saying "They are retaliating and therefore not a government" is not a good defence to the argument "Apple is like a government and therefore shouldn't be allowed to retaliate".

The comment makes no arguments for this point, though - it establishes an opinion (Apple acting like a government) then starts listing off facts like they support that argument.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#235

Post by acomjean »

bashinator wrote: post #218
SeanA208 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do Epic's games benefit users in meaningful ways over any of the other games on the App Store? They benefit the users who want to play those games. Fortnite in particular is huge.

On top of that, there's a pretty strong argument to be made that Fortnite is as much about socialization and open-ended interaction as it is a game. Apple banning what's potentially a next-generation social network from their platform isn't a great look.

This is true.

As an adult who's partner plays and plays occasionally, Its honestly really about group chatting (voice comms) with friends/relatives as much as it is about the game for us. I mean the game is silly and fun, but really its a group thing. I almost never play when not with friends.

And occasionally there are group events/ a concerts and movie screenings.

We're all on PCs/ Consoles, but if your a kid a free to play game your friends are on you could join in with a tablet, would be nice.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#236

Post by weixiyen »

maxsilver wrote: post #169
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #104

That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR campaign and then sued you? After all this you offer them to allow Fortnite back if they reverse what they've done that breached the contract. Instead, they: - Reject the offer - Carry on smearing you - Lose the court case - Sweeney says they wouldn’t release iO…

The problem with this logic, is that Apple isn't really a "business" in this case. Epic and Apple aren't really "business partners". Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity with none of the responsibilities or checks on authority that a real government has. You can sue the Post Office, lose your case, and know they can't retaliate by stealing all your mail forever. You can sue the Department o…

I agree with this, Epic is forcing Apple into a no-win situation where they either do what Epic wants or come off very poorly to regulators.

Epic doesn't need to win this specific court case to get what they want, all they need is for this to stay top of mind for lawmakers to change the rules in favor of developers.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#237

Post by isatty »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #149
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #104

That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR campaign and then sued you? After all this you offer them to allow Fortnite back if they reverse what they've done that breached the contract. Instead, they: - Reject the offer - Carry on smearing you - Lose the court case - Sweeney says they wouldn’t release iO…

It's complicated. Right now Apple makes $0 from Fortnite, if they allow them back they will at least get something. Don't let emotions get in the way of business- there is still money to be made. This feels petty on Apple's part unless they are using this to send a message to anyone else who wants to sue them.

I’m fairly certain this was calculated. Someone crunched the numbers and included this into the equation and sticking it to epic came on top. This isn’t a purely emotional decision even though it seems that way.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#238

Post by ye_olde_gamer »

Paianni wrote: post #200
mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

How do Epic's games benefit users in meaningful ways over any of the other non-exploitative games on the App Store?

Fortnite notwithstanding, Epic also makes the Unreal Engine, which is one of the biggest ones alongside Unity -- especially for cross-platform games. Hindering iOS development of UE will affect a lot of other game devs, both huge and indie.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#239

Post by mbreese »

bashinator wrote: post #218
SeanA208 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do Epic's games benefit users in meaningful ways over any of the other games on the App Store? They benefit the users who want to play those games. Fortnite in particular is huge.

On top of that, there's a pretty strong argument to be made that Fortnite is as much about socialization and open-ended interaction as it is a game. Apple banning what's potentially a next-generation social network from their platform isn't a great look.

A counter point is that it was an extremely reckless move for Epic to risk the banning of their next-generation social network (which to my kids, it definitely is) from the largest mobile store. Epic thought they were forcing Apple's hand, but they lost in court on the points they really cared about the most. And they got confirmation that Apple was well within their rights to cancel the developer account.

I'm not sure the risk was worth it... especially since they didn't need to take that risk to file the lawsuit.

From the first moments, Epic has been running a PR campaign, which doesn't really help you in court.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#240

Post by kerng »

cortesoft wrote: post #222
mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

I don't necessarily agree with Apple here, but couldn't your same arguments be made against Epic? They want to "stick it" to Apple and are harming their customers in the mean time? What this comes down to is an argument over money, and what percentage apple should get of that money. I don't think either company has a moral high ground in their negotiations on what percentage apple deserves.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly.

Apple is just being a bully.

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