EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones • Hacker News Board

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#541

Post by throwaway473825 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #372

FabHK wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One nice and welcome example of consumer-friendly legislation, btw: The EU prohibited mobile operators from charging voice and data roaming fees within the EU. So, now on holiday in Spain, say, you can just keep using your mobile contract including free minutes and data. (A typical deal is 10 GB data.) When traveling outside the EU, it's still best to buy a local SIM to avoid the ludicrous roaming charges, but there'…

Very interesting (or disturbing) in this regard is the UK after Brexit, where one by one the mobile operators are all reintroducing roaming charges now that the relevant EU law no longer applies.

Another consumer-friendly regulation that Brexit has destroyed is the cap on interchange fees (0.2% for consumer debit cards and 0.3% for consumer credit cards).[1]

[1] https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/37706/visa-hikes-uk-eu-...

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#542

Post by jollybean » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #301

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

No, I don't. Here the EU is creating legislation that forces manufacturers to increase interoperability, be more consumer-friendly, and more climate friendly. This all seems within the remit of governments to me. > I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything. Or course not, it's not like…

The legislation doesn't really do any of those things, and 'cords', like 'plastic straws' are negligible bit of waste - moreover, the legislation probably wouldn't even change the amount of 'cord waste' that much.

The legislation has risk because USBC is ill suited to many things and it's best to let manufactures make that decision.

The EU legislators are a buit lazy on this one: they are legislation what is 'in front of their faces' (i.e. the phones they use) without recognizing the impact might not be what they think.

Now - where there is a non-standard situation (remember A/C adapters?) - then it would actually help for an engineering body to set some kind of standard - but that should probably be a standards body, and not the EU.

As long as manufacturers are using some measure of standardization that would be fine.

A more rational (but difficult) approach would be to figure out a method and system for disposing or recycling the cords.

"Or course not, it's not like legislation is set in stone and will never change."

Government legislation does not keep pace with innovation, it lags it considerably. Not only that, it tends to stagnate. As such it risks becoming a limiting factor and push the dynamism to Asia.

I think requiring the use of standard connectors would be fine, but they mostly already do.

Creating an electronics recycling program would be actually smart, and have positive impact on the environment, but that's hard.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#543

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

OneTimePetes wrote: post #512

DangerousPie wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert by any means, but my impression is that, while they certainly still have some influence, lobbyists and big companies hold a lot less sway in European politics than in the US. Part of that may be tighter rules around campaign finance, part of it may be cultural.

Lots of right wing parties in the EU advocate for a "countryname-exit" and thus lobbyism in the EU has to fight the fear of no-existing very soon. Thus, the government has to fight for the approval of the people every day at gunpoint and thus, good legislation may appear for fear of loosing ones power, job and by that even the lobbyism bribery income.

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#544

Post by wutbrodo » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

eemil wrote: post #432

I don't get it. Apple went all-in with USB-C on their computers (starting 5 years ago with the macbook pro). And that was a pretty unpopular decision at the time. Now that the mobile phone industry has standardized on USB-C, they want to stick with lightning? Are they doing it just to be contrarian?

> Are they doing it just to be contrarian?

If they continue to avoid the widely-used standard, they reduce the likelihood a consumer will buy their overpriced first-party peripherals. This hardly even counts as nefarious: it's openly their brand to dismiss the benefits to the user of interoperability.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#545

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #347

esseeayen wrote: post #304

Wait does this mean that the EU will also prevent the USB-if from charging licensing fees? Or is someone in the EU getting some kickbacks?

I believe that EU law allows anyone to make USB ports and stuff. It's the USB logo that you're not allowed without licensing fees.

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#546

Post by dspillett » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #465

nicce wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Apple is moving a way from USB-C-only charger on the next gen laptops, because it does not provide enough power(to get even better charging speed). (Physical size limits that) So, maybe for phones it is enough in the future, but not for all devices.

That's bullshit. You can carry 240W over USB-C. Physical size limits current, not voltage, and you can increase voltage.

Is anyone actually selling devices that can output or consume that yet? IIRC the updated standard was only made public a few months ago.

I know some off-spec devices (some XPS laptops for instance) can shovel 130W around where 100W is the usual maximum but I don't remember hearing of any that make use of more.

There is another option without that standard too: you could always draw from more than one source. Many USB connected DVD writing devices did (probably still do if not using USB-C) this, so they could be used to write reliably at full speed if the host PC couldn't give more than the lower power standards down a USB port (with higher power support you only need one connection, with legacy ports one connector was data+power the other just power).

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#547

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #506

GhostVII wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait isn't unbundling the sale of the charger the thing everyone got mad at Apple for? And now they are legislating it?

Apple's charger unbundling was stupid. They sold the iPhone with a USB-A charging brick for like 12 years. Then when the iPhone 11 came out in 2019, it came with a USB-C charging brick and a USB-C to Lightning cable, which would not work with any of the chargers they bundled for the past decade and some. And then, one year after changing the cable, they took away the USB-C charging brick. "Just use the ones you alrea…

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#548

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #514

GordonS wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't. Here the EU is creating legislation that forces manufacturers to increase interoperability, be more consumer-friendly, and more climate friendly. This all seems within the remit of governments to me. > I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything. Or course not, it's not like…

>Or course not, it's not like legislation is set in stone and *will never change.* Regulations can be changed, but its not easy. If this regulation was proposed in 2005, would we even have usb-c? or would the mobile world still be stuck on mini-usb because that is what the EU would have mandated at that time? I don't want my cell phone designed by an EU committee.

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#549

Post by BiteCode_dev » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

I don't worry about multi billions dollar company having to lobby a little more to update the default port format in 10 years. They are good at it.

I do worry about the invisible hand of the market not being a good balance for interoperability or sustainability.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#550

Post by alxhill » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #506

GhostVII wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait isn't unbundling the sale of the charger the thing everyone got mad at Apple for? And now they are legislating it?

Apple's charger unbundling was stupid. They sold the iPhone with a USB-A charging brick for like 12 years. Then when the iPhone 11 came out in 2019, it came with a USB-C charging brick and a USB-C to Lightning cable, which would not work with any of the chargers they bundled for the past decade and some. And then, one year after changing the cable, they took away the USB-C charging brick. "Just use the ones you alrea…

I think it's reasonable for Apple to assume that if you kept the old charger, you also had the old cable for it which would also work with the new iPhone.