EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones • Hacker News Board

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#471

Post by toyg » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #452

toyg wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody forces you to buy a consumer-unfriendly product that also happens to be arbitrarily expensive. If somebody in Milan can't afford a Ferrari made in Maranello because the damn company insists in pricing their cars beyond what is reasonable for a 4-wheeled vehicle, it doesn't mean Milan should secede from Italy, surely.

> Nobody forces you to buy a consumer-unfriendly product that also happens to be arbitrarily expensive. If anything, Apple's Lightning port (and the 30-pin connector before that) are significantly more consumer-friendly than USB. Where consumers are consumers of Apple products, but still. In the span of time when Apple only had two connectors, USB went through 3 or 4. USB didn't even have a charging standard until 20…

A single, monopolistic market would also be "consumer friendly", given those parameters. Obviously we don't want that, do we?

Getting multiple manufacturers to agree on anything is always going to be a challenge and produce some compromises. But it's still better for the market as a whole, which in turn is better for consumers. I look forward to the chance of buying a single, universal charger with great features that will last me decades, from a vendor that may or may not be a phone-manufacturer. Apple would gladly do their worse to stop me from doing that, if they could.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#472

Post by mesebrec » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #459

Robotbeat wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it’s easily possible to pick a standard that is so subpar compared to a proprietary one that it’s worse for the consumer. A solution would be to just require any port used to be freely available and open. Require Apple to open the lightning standard and make IP related to it unenforceable.

[flagged]

> So you are a communist thieve of IP !!11!! Who will ever design a plug again, if it can be stolen from them by the government?!?!? /s

"jokes" like that are counter-productive to a good discussion. HN is not a place for such comments.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#473

Post by lol768 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

The vast majority of people who seem to be finding this strange (and seem to have a misconception that laws don't and cannot adapt to technological progress once passed) appear to be American or (at the very least) have less day to day exposure to EU legislation and the regulatory landscape.

I get the impression there's a rather striking cultural difference in terms of views on regulation and the overall purpose of government's activities.

I personally welcome this proposal - like many others (GDPR, ePrivacy, data roaming) that have come before it it prioritises individuals over the wants of corporations.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#474

Post by ewidar » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #400

zepolen wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is proprietary about Apples chargers? > The only proprietary part is the lightning connector. > I charge my MBP from a Lenovo power brick Way to avoid the issue at hand, can you charge your iPhone using your Android charger/cable? Laptop chargers aren't the problem, phone chargers are. As you saw, USB-C solved the problems for laptops, it's about time we solve it for phones too.

You can certainly charge an iPhone using an android charger.

We're talking with no adapters here, as in you have a single plain usb-c charger for all your phones.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#475

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

alwayseasy wrote: post #434

CivBase wrote: post #405

Why is this so important to the EU? The stated purposes of this proposal are to reduce e-waste and improve consumer convenience, but it's easily argued that the actual impact of the proposal is the exact opposite.

Please argue the opposite because I don't see what you mean.

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#476

Post by selfhoster11 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

jhoechtl wrote: post #362

ubercow13 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government already mandates the electricity interconnect one step back at the wall socket. This is just extending that to modern devices.

Just to be clear, power sockets are not standardized in the EU. Italy has different ones (Type L), France as well (Type E), and the UK too (but they are no longer ... you know) ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country

Italian sockets can be easily vandalised into a type C socket in a pinch. I know, I've done it once in a fit of anger.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#477

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

diffeomorphism wrote: post #341

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

We already had the same rule with micro usb and no the "20 year problem" did not happen. General rule of thumb: If there is a really obvious issue, it is not only obvious to you and hence was already addressed.

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#478

Post by beezischillin » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

chefkoch wrote: post #393

beezischillin wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's strange because I have separate roaming data in my contract and it's way less than my local one.

Then you have either a very old contract or one of the special no roaming ones.

I renewed five contracts this year, neither of them had the same amount of data for roaming as they did for local. Calls and SMS, they did (unlimited, basically). This seems to be the norm for Orange here. I would assume the same goes for Vodafone since they generally seemed to always offer less for more.

That being said, it's absolutely lovely to be able to travel for business or holiday and to be able to find your way around, purchase things and get access to public transportation information abroad. Roaming costs before that always tended to be so eye-watering that I never really knew anyone who thought they were worth putting up with. I really dislike going outside of the European Union because of them, myself, too.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#479

Post by selfhoster11 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #321

ubercow13 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government already mandates the electricity interconnect one step back at the wall socket. This is just extending that to modern devices.

I guess it depends on how far you want it to go. If electric sockets aren't standard then that creates bottlenecks in infrastructure interchangeability. To me, I don't see why government has any business in USB. Bluetooth maybe since it takes up the air. But USB? It's bad enough that wall sockets haven't improved. Will we be stuck with USB-C long after its natural EOL?

Legislation is not eternal. When USB-C outlives its usefulness, it can be legislated away in favour of a different standard. Or they could let a standards/industrial body make the binding decision.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#480

Post by DangerousPie » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

behnamoh wrote: post #453

FabHK wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One nice and welcome example of consumer-friendly legislation, btw: The EU prohibited mobile operators from charging voice and data roaming fees within the EU. So, now on holiday in Spain, say, you can just keep using your mobile contract including free minutes and data. (A typical deal is 10 GB data.) When traveling outside the EU, it's still best to buy a local SIM to avoid the ludicrous roaming charges, but there'…

I find it interesting that our main hope for forcing the big tech to follow ethical/environment_friendly/user_friendly procedures is not the US, but the EU. I'm not European, but can anyone tell me how does the political system in the EU let (or even motivate) law-makers and governments to support such mandates and laws that are in favor of consumers?

I'm not an expert by any means, but my impression is that, while they certainly still have some influence, lobbyists and big companies hold a lot less sway in European politics than in the US. Part of that may be tighter rules around campaign finance, part of it may be cultural.