Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

xda-developers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 751 posts

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#431

Post by rualca »

simonh wrote: post #396
GordonS wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't. Here the EU is creating legislation that forces manufacturers to increase interoperability, be more consumer-friendly, and more climate friendly. This all seems within the remit of governments to me. > I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything. Or course not, it's not like…

The fact is Lightning is so widely used in practice that force deprecating it would drive an awful lot of kit into land fills. If it was one of the dozen or so variations of little USB with 2% or 3% market share each you'd have a point, but those have mostly gone already. I don't expect Lightning to be around forever, but then I don't expect USB-C to be around forever either. Some day it will be super-ceded - should…

> The fact is Lightning is so widely used in practice that force deprecating it would drive an awful lot of kit into land fills.

An awful lot of kit is already going to landfills due to being rendered useless for depending on non-standard components to work. Personally I had to throw out a couple of phones because their chargers stopped working.

Also, it's not as if lightning-to-USB-C adapters are unheard of.

To top things off, even if we somehow assume that USB-C is unable to meet anyone's needs in a few years, and in the process ignore the fact that USB-A has been meeting all needs for some decades now, why would we jump to the conclusion that whatever port format comes next it will be technically impossible to get it to work with USB-C, or offer it in parallel with USB-C?

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#432

Post by eemil »

I don't get it.

Apple went all-in with USB-C on their computers (starting 5 years ago with the macbook pro). And that was a pretty unpopular decision at the time.

Now that the mobile phone industry has standardized on USB-C, they want to stick with lightning? Are they doing it just to be contrarian?

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#433

Post by worrycue »

majinuub wrote: post #383
sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

Its not strange. However, I do think governments mandating it is an overstep and it should be strange. Then again, I am a voluntaryist living in the US so I'm pretty biased when it comes to government mandates.

I feel like it’s an overstep too. I don’t feel comfortable with bureaucrats determining which technology we should use.

Going to stick my neck out, and some might say this is just a slippery slope fallacy, but should governments mandate choice of programming languages? It would certainly help interoperability and longevity of code - just like with connectors.

Anyway on an emotion level it just feels wrong.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#434

Post by alwayseasy »

CivBase wrote: post #405

Why is this so important to the EU? The stated purposes of this proposal are to reduce e-waste and improve consumer convenience, but it's easily argued that the actual impact of the proposal is the exact opposite.

Please argue the opposite because I don't see what you mean.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#436

Post by toyg »

Robotbeat wrote: post #417
toyg wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already a change from previous legislation that effectively mandated micro-USB. So yeah, it can be done.

Man, lightning is FAR better than the fragile micro-USB. I’ve had to repair microUSB ports multiple times.

From the perspective of a free and non-monopolistic market, anything from the USB consortium is massively better than an expensive proprietary standard controlled by a single vendor. Technical superiority is not the point.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#437

Post by tzs »

walterbell wrote: post #278

They need to mandate the presence of a physical cable, otherwise Apple will drop the port and move to wireless charging. Wired cable remains important for high-quality audio and secure data transfers. Both WiFi and Bluetooth have a long and storied history of vulnerabilities. While they are at it, can we please have a dedicated physical cable port for audio? It doesn't have to be TRRS 3.5mm, but it must be possible t…

Are dongles for audio actually noticeably more power-hungry than a wired connection?

The device is still a digital audio device, requiring a DAC for output and an ADC for input to connect to your analog headphones and microphone. I don't see why putting the DAC and/or ADC in a dongle would use more power than putting them in the device.

I'd argue that the DAC and/or ADC are best placed as close to the headphones and mic as possible. If I'm using very high quality headphones or mics I'm going to want a very high quality DAC/ADC. If I'm using low quality headphones or mics I'm fine with a lower quality DAC/ADC.

With the DAC/ADC built into the device I'm either limited by the quality the device maker chose or am paying for more than I need.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#438

Post by dragonwriter »

adrr wrote: post #401
josefx wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that after years of everyone pulling their own shit we finally have USB C. Yet it seems as if a dozen companies still do their best to remain incompatible in various ways. No one wants USB C as permanent solution but the alternative hasn't worked out.

USB C is a huge mess. I have at least 3 types of USB c cables. Standard USB C cables, Cables that can charge my MacBook Pro, and cables that can hook my pro to a dock. I understand the differences but try explaining the differences to your parents.

> but try explaining the differences to your parents.

Wheh my Boomer parents first got computers as adults, the number of radically different cables with the same connectors (especially DB9 or DB25) on the end was dizzying, as well as the set of different connectors, and remembering what each was for (or attaching tape and labelling whatever wasn’t the most common function with the same combination of connectors) was the norm. That's also been true (though the set of common connectors has evolved) for most Gen-X and early “Oregon Trail generation” Millenials.

“Almost every cable is USB A to USB micro-B and fully interchangeable” was such a narrow slice of time that it's really only going to dominate your parents experience if they were late Millenials or early Gen-Z.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#439

Post by cherrycherry98 »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

Ports types have been converging naturally without government intervention. Even for iPhones, the writing is on the wall for the the lightning connector. It was introduced nearly 10 years ago under different market conditions (no equivalent USB standard existed). Apple is gradually converging on USB-C, MacBooks contain only USB-C ports, the iPad Pro uses USB-C instead of lightning. The rest of the product line can't be far behind given their propensity for simplicity, being able to use one cable for everything fits well with that.

To answer the EU Commission's question, "Are your chargers piling up in a drawer?". No, I have far less chargers than 10 or 15 years ago when my laptop, digital camera, game system, and phone all had different connectors. Now my laptop, game system (Switch), and phone all use USB-C (phone has absorbed the digital camera). My Kindle is microUSB but newer ones are USB-C as well.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#440

Post by kylecordes »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #275

The article focuses on forcing USB-C ports (popular), but the proposal also unbundles chargers from products like cell phones (unpopular). Apple and several other vendors already unbundled chargers from their boxes with mixed reception. Will be interesting to see how this proposal is received when people realize it means they’ll be purchasing chargers separately.

Although I think generally a regulation to get a handle on port proliferation can be very helpful and pro-consumer, inevitably consumers will primarily blame phone manufacturers greed as the reason they don’t get a charger in the box anymore.
Post reply on HN