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EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

xda-developers.com

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Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#101

Post by mojzu »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #23
Reason077 wrote: post #8

I can’t wait for an iPhone with a USB C port, and I’ll buy it immediately. There’s nothing technically wrong with Lightning, but it’s a monumental pain to have to carry around 2 sets of incompatible cables because of it!

I think it’s more likely that Apple will drop the port completely and move to a wireless-charger only approach.

Could they do this given current or near-future technology? My understanding is wireless charging is ~30% less efficient then using a cable, and degrades the battery more. I'm not sure it'd be much of an environmental win to have to use more energy/replace batteries more often (although perhaps Apple would see it as replacing lightning revenue with battery replacement revenue)

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#102

Post by lagadu »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #23
Reason077 wrote: post #8

I can’t wait for an iPhone with a USB C port, and I’ll buy it immediately. There’s nothing technically wrong with Lightning, but it’s a monumental pain to have to carry around 2 sets of incompatible cables because of it!

I think it’s more likely that Apple will drop the port completely and move to a wireless-charger only approach.

And miss out on selling all those accessories? Doubtful.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#103

Post by jonplackett »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #80
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lightning connector is a more physically robust one than USB-C. The male lightning connector is a single flat piece; the female connector is a hole with the contacts on the top + bottom of the port. Compare to USB-C, which has an exposed "tab" in the middle of the female connector, and the male connector has a matching "hole" in the middle. This makes USB-C more vulnerable to e.g. dust collecting, and damage of t…

We don't really know that -- USB-C hasn't been out long enough. I can tell you that for durability I hate lightning, because it always seems to have connection problems after a while and the plug itself seems overly complex for what it does. I can't recall ever having any such connection problems with micro USB or USB A for example. In general it's easy to see also that the lightning connector itself is far more expo…

This is weird. My experience has always been the opposite. I’ve broken lots of usb-c cables with the metal bit coming loose. Lightening hardly ever. Any connection problems are usually pocket lint in the hole and fixed with a paper clip.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#104

Post by iSnow »

jsudi wrote: post #65
iSnow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why the EU back then banged the heads of the manufacturers together to force them to come up with a common standard, instead of picking one and forcing it down their throat.

So we’ll be unable to ever improve on usb-c? How’s that good for anybody?

First off, I am not sure we need to improve on it in the short term. USB-A has existed for ~20y by now on the desktop and is still going strong. If USB-C lives as long, we'll get a break from having to buy different cables for quite some time, which at least is great for /my/ nerves. When I threw away old phone chargers from 1996 and later, it was literally 10 different models.

And if USB-C doesn't cut it anymore, who's to say that industry can't move to a different system? EU legislation usually isn't outlandish but follows industry practices. If device manufacturers bring up a pressing need for USB-D, EU will allow both for a transition period and then mandate USB-D (or split up mandatory standards by device class if need be).

I don't see how every tiny iteration of a standard has to result in a different plug system - the incentive for companies to iterate plugs just to force consumers to re-buy gear is just too high.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#105

Post by llampx »

amelius wrote: post #27
avianlyric wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably they think they can make the jump to a completely wireless phone before any USB-C mandates come in. Apple's timing with the lighting port wasn't great, with it arriving just before USB-C, and I imagine they're very reluctant to change the port on their phones because people already have lightning cables everywhere. Personally I would love to see USB-C on my iPhone, but I look at my parents, and having the po…

> Probably they think they can make the jump to a completely wireless phone before any USB-C mandates come in. What is the efficiency of wireless charging?

It is terrible, adds heat and is worse for the environment. See any long-term review of the Magsafe wireless external stick-on battery for the iPhone.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#106

Post by danpalmer »

josefx wrote: post #25
sph wrote: post #4

Good, though in practice it's not the charger the problem, I use the same USB plug everywhere, it's Apple and their cable. Right now I always need with me a micro USB cable, an USB-C one, and Lightning, because Apple thinks different™. What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones?

> Good, though in practice it's not the charger the problem, I use the same USB plug everywhere This isn't the first time the EU mentioned those plans, the current situation is basically the phone manufacturers regulating themselves to avoid an explicit regulation by the EU. > it's Apple and their cable. Of course there is always that one greedy asshole ruining it for everyone else. > What's Apple reasoning for not a…

> They probably considered Lightning to be superior but couldn't make it the industry standard without loosing their ability to charge absurd amounts of licensing fees for it.

I don't think it's this. Lightning was superior to micro-USB, but it's certainly not superior to USB-C.

I think the problem is that everyone remembers the transition from the 30 pin dock connector to Lightning. Apple has a huge reputation for just changing their cables all the time.

This is largely unwarranted. For the portable devices they had 30-pin for ~10 years, then lightning for ~10 years, and it looks like it's on its way out soon. I think 10 years is a fairly reasonable time to keep ecosystems the same. People don't have 10 year old cables and chargers around.

This reputation is pervasive though. I think they're holding off until they can drop the cable entirely in 1-2 years.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#107

Post by squarefoot »

Great news but needs serious enforcement and vigilance against various tricks that manufacturers might employ to "encourage" users to buy their own charger. Example: if a phone sets a lower charging current when it is not connected to the same-brand charger, no matter if that charger can source the necessary current, that would trick the user in believing the original charger is better by shorting the charging time, so the user would be lured into buying one, and we could end up in a even worse situation in which for most people a product and its charger would come in two packages and two shipments.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#109

Post by mrsuprawsm »

IvanK_net wrote: post #94
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lightning connector is a more physically robust one than USB-C. The male lightning connector is a single flat piece; the female connector is a hole with the contacts on the top + bottom of the port. Compare to USB-C, which has an exposed "tab" in the middle of the female connector, and the male connector has a matching "hole" in the middle. This makes USB-C more vulnerable to e.g. dust collecting, and damage of t…

This is not about what connector is better. It is about everyone using the same connector. I believe if Apple allowed others to use their connector for free, they could "beat" USBs and become the only existing standard.

The parent comment asked:

>What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones?

I would think that "what connector is better" definitely plays an important part in Apple's reasoning.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#110

Post by vetinari »

midasuni wrote: post #100
endless1234 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be argued that lightning is slightly better, sure. But billions of people use USB-C daily, and even half of Apples product line only has them instead of lightning, so not sure if the difference is that meaningful.

I don’t own a single usbc device, I have lightning on my phone, and tons of microusb-usbA devices/cables “Billions” sounds like a HN bubble statement.

Same applies in reverse.

I don't own a single lightning device, but everything (minus older devices) has usb-c. Even rechargeable battery inside a flashlight.

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