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The last days of Silicon Roundabout

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Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#51

Post by Nextgrid »

lostdog wrote: post #21
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? Where do you suggest? I only speak English to any decent level, German to a barely conversational degree, and given brexit, the right to work in a German speaking country is not a given. I sure as hell am not ever going to live in the (no offence) right-wing dystopia…

I did mean the USA, but now see that it was implicit (sorry. I probably enforced a bunch of stereotypes right there). I'm very curious if "it's a right-wing dystopia" is a common viewpoint, and whether it comes from direct experience, or just reading about the US. (Not disagreeing at all).

As an outsider what I don't like about the US is less the politics of particular candidates (I guess that's the point of politics and having multiple competing parties - people vote for those with whom they align with) but the "dynamics" and people's approach to politics. Everything seems politicized to a much higher extent than in the UK or European countries. As a recent example, masks and vaccines are seen as political messages by (seemingly) a lot of people.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#52

Post by Nextgrid »

erdo wrote: post #2

Is this article down playing the effects of Brexit a little? I used to work in Silicon Roundabout and now I live in Paris, I know plenty of developers who've moved out of the UK because of Brexit, but none who have moved to the UK since Brexit was finalised. It must be getting harder and harder for London based startups to find a dev team

> It must be getting harder and harder for London based startups to find a dev team

The market has stabilized and the salaries demanded seem to exceed what typical "growth and engagement" startup crap is willing to pay, where as before there seemed to be a surplus of talent happy to take these lower wages.

But it's not hard to hire if you have a sustainable business that can afford to pay good wages. When someone complains to me how hard it is to hire I always talk about this magical thing called "money" and where if you put more of it on the table you'll magically get more candidates in the next day. But instead they still focus on pool tables and "culture".

It could also be that the startup market is saturated and the "growth and engagement" bubble is popping? It used to be that any tech company that can show growth (even without a solid business plan to turn that into profit) could get insane amounts of money thrown at them, where as now every idea has been hashed and rehashed multiple times and you need an actual business plan addressing your predecessors' failures - simply boasting how many users you have on your sinking ship won't cut it (or at least not as much).

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#53

Post by mixmastamyk »

zz865 wrote: post #40
Computeiful wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

I moved to the US from the UK and I think it was a mistake. The first 5 years were great now my kids have settled I feel kinda stuck. I didn't mind working non stop and dedicating life to work, but its a drag.

When you get some experience and seniority is usually isn’t too bad. All my jobs would extend vacation when I asked, even if some portion were unpaid.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#54

Post by digianarchist »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

I left the UK because of the dire salaries.

£25,000 South East England

£30,000 North West England

£45,000 London (last offer in UK I didn't take)

Moved to Canada

£60,000 Toronto

£75,000 Toronto

£85,000 Toronto

£105,000 base £35,000 RSUs Toronto

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#55

Post by xxpor »

Nextgrid wrote: post #50
michaelt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? First of all, working in tech in the UK you can make $130,000 which is 3-4x the median annual salary. Very few Brits would describe that is "extremely low". That's enough money to have a few kids, a wife who doesn't work, and a pretty decent lifestyle. Why move a 10-h…

Can you supplement your post with some evidence? Because what I see on the market is all at the ~80k mark - 100k+ is an edge-case outside of FAANG. In comparison, in the US 150k+ seems common, and while you could argue costs of living and healthcare offset that, if you're purely betting on the short-term and are relatively young (so unlikely to need much healthcare) you can save up a ton of cash with that compared to…

How much do people think folks who work for FAANGs are paying for health care? My out of pocket max for a year is $3000. And I pay $25 a month. If I had a family it'd be something like $60 a month and an out of packet max of $7500. And that's the expensive plan, out of pocket max wise (for a lower monthly payment). I haven't come across anyone who was out of network my entire time here. Granted that's more than 0, but if you're making $200k a year, it's trivial.

Healthcare in the US is a real problem for folks on the margins or low wage jobs. But for people working white collar jobs, it's usually pretty good. There's a reason why when Obamacare passed, people freaked out! The status quo bias comes from the fact that most people are happy.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#56

Post by cameronh90 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #50
michaelt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector? First of all, working in tech in the UK you can make $130,000 which is 3-4x the median annual salary. Very few Brits would describe that is "extremely low". That's enough money to have a few kids, a wife who doesn't work, and a pretty decent lifestyle. Why move a 10-h…

Can you supplement your post with some evidence? Because what I see on the market is all at the ~80k mark - 100k+ is an edge-case outside of FAANG. In comparison, in the US 150k+ seems common, and while you could argue costs of living and healthcare offset that, if you're purely betting on the short-term and are relatively young (so unlikely to need much healthcare) you can save up a ton of cash with that compared to…

£100K+ ($135k) is common enough in fintech, and lately smaller tech startups have been offering that kind of salary.

I don't know where those aggregation sites get their data, but it doesn't match my experience. Those same sites will say the average in SF is well below what anyone I know is earning also.

I would note salaries are not very transparent in the UK, and most higher end job adverts don't even indicate a range - but based on the constant messages on LinkedIn and my experience hiring, the market is a lot hotter than those aggregation sites would suggest.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#57

Post by 1_player »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

> If any UKites have made it to this thread, is be curious to hear why so few people leave for countries with a stronger and higher paying tech sector?

If by "countries with higher paying tech sector" you mean the USA, with all due respect and without going into a huge discussion, I much prefer staying in UK, or the European continent in general. There is more to life, happiness, comfort, long-term goals and self-realisation than the number of dollars deposited in my bank account by my employer.

With remote working and the Internet the idea of relocating where your job is, is quite antiquated, at least for my standards. If I really need the money, I'll try and find a way to get paid US salaries while living in the EU.

As a software engineer working 100% remote and living in London I get paid 3-4x the average London salary, which is enough _for me_ to live more than comfortably and I don't really feel I need to earn $500k a year to improve my quality of life. I can't afford a private jet, but I don't need one, either.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#58

Post by mixmastamyk »

cosmodisk wrote: post #32
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kings Cross is a bizarre no man’s land where it’s hyper gentrified in some ways but also a shitty void with fuck all going on. Bizarre place that experienced 30 years worth of development in 5.

It is a strange place indeed but its development is almost a blueprint for many others in the capital: previously shitty, ran down places being converted into very expensive areas,yet they aren't very livable. I mean what one is supposed to do when they leave their flats that are minutes walk from King's Cross?

Sounds like they need a park? Are there markets at least?

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#59

Post by cameronh90 »

lostdog wrote: post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

Extremely low? Not as high as SF, sure, but easily top 5% for the country after a few years experience. Salary aside, many people find life a lot more enjoyable here. I know plenty of people who've worked for a period in the US and come back, as well as myself having done a stint for a US company for a while.

US corporate working culture is rather different to here. Here, if you don't take 4+ weeks holiday, your manager will have a word with you for working too much. Complaining about being back at work after a holiday is expected. At the end of the day, you log off and go home, and you don't think about work again until the next morning except in exceptional cases. Everyone knows and accepts that work is work, not the point of your life. 3PM Friday drinks is still a part of the culture in many companies, as is knocking off early on a nice day and going to the pub.

Obviously it's not like this in every job (particularly low salary or menial), but every job I and most of my acquaintances have had has been vaguely like this.

Then of course there's safety, environment, toxic politics, healthcare, etc. plus generally just liking what you're familiar with. I love the USA, but there are things that are hard to get used to, like car-only suburbs, jaywalking laws, beaches that close at night or are privately owned, rules against outdoor drinking...

I also find UK tech has less of an ageism problem than the USA. People sometimes return here after they start to find their age is causing problems finding work in the US.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#60

Post by fragmede »

cameronh90 wrote: post #56
Nextgrid wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you supplement your post with some evidence? Because what I see on the market is all at the ~80k mark - 100k+ is an edge-case outside of FAANG. In comparison, in the US 150k+ seems common, and while you could argue costs of living and healthcare offset that, if you're purely betting on the short-term and are relatively young (so unlikely to need much healthcare) you can save up a ton of cash with that compared to…

£100K+ ($135k) is common enough in fintech, and lately smaller tech startups have been offering that kind of salary. I don't know where those aggregation sites get their data, but it doesn't match my experience. Those same sites will say the average in SF is well below what anyone I know is earning also. I would note salaries are not very transparent in the UK, and most higher end job adverts don't even indicate a ra…

FAANG'll pay $300k (£220k) (all-in) in SF, so £100K is low, even if it's much higher than the local average.
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