The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used • Hacker News Board

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#281

Post by orthecreedence » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #166

> I really miss my Thinkpad Trackpoint This is one of those comments I will never understand. Every single time I have tried to use one of those things the only thought that goes through my mind is, "This is the dumbest mouse interface I have ever seen. Why would anyone ever use this thing?" And then I see comments like this. I don't get it. The ergonomics of those little nubs are awful .

It's phenomenal on airplanes and buses where your elbows are extremely constrained and you want to keep your hands on the keyboard.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#282

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #194

What are the long term prospects for this company? I'd like to have a repairable/upgradable laptop, but if they go out of business in a year, it's not much of an improvement over a Macbook... granted, it'd be some improvement since I could replace/upgrade commodity components like RAM or the hard drive but if the motherboard or display fails, I have to buy a new laptop.

[deleted]

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#283

Post by 3nf » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #50

I still remained baffled by the popularity of the laptop. Literally everyone I know works with them fixed in one location; their desk. Yes, some people do need mobility, but this appears to be a minority of consumers. We could’ve had all this repairability and modularity years ago if most consumers just admitted that really they wanted a desktop all along. It also fixed complaints about keyboards.

Carrying to meetings to be productive or stare at Zombo (back when meetings were in person). Some of my co-workers have a hybrid schedule and work won't give us two machines. Getting things done while attending conferences (if those happen again).

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#284

Post by fsflover » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #184

fsflover wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot neutralize and disable the PSP spying module in AMD processors, while in Intel ones you can do that with ME: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Assert... .

As much as I love speculating about backdoors and NSA wiretapping, I seriously doubt these MEs are malicious. At this point, managing a modern x86 is tough work, especially if you want to run virtualization, complex threading and maintain high efficiency. It makes total sense that there are mandatory supervisor chips at this point, and without any evidence that these chips are "phoning home," I simply have to assume…

It does not even matter if they are actively malicious. They are closed, non-removable, with proven vulnerabilities (which not only CIA can use). What else do you need?

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#285

Post by bigpeopleareold » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

I like what they are doing, but I am sticking with my 2 primary thinkpads for now, which is fine as well and certainly eco :) They are still a perfect level of repairability (t430s and a t470p) even if I can't upgrade the CPUs on them.

I am excited over seeing this project, but these things have stuck out for me:

1. I am concerned over long-term screen hinge strength. I can't see the build on it, but I will not cheap out on that after dealing with bad hinges (screwed into plastic, not a metal frame on a Dell)

2. I am concerned over the durability of the screen. I am not an expert at this, but I have no worry over the screen if I chuck it in a bag or my cats who sometimes stand on the top of the laptop when I put it on the floor.

3. I watched Louis Rossmann's takes on it - I was hoping he would go into the tactile feel of the keyboard. I can wait though for any commentary on that from a ThinkPad user. I can try to stop using the TrackPoint (would hate unlearning that) but a good laptop keyboard is essential. (I declare the best laptop keyboard I ever experienced is the one I have on my t430s. Lenovo has made the key travel lower and lower over the years. The t470p and others around that year I used is OK, but doesn't compare really.)

If anything were to go wrong though, hey, I can at least repair it :D But, I continue to stare in wonder over this. I'd love to be proven otherwise on these points.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#286

Post by czechdeveloper » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

qolop wrote: post #13

ad133 wrote: post #7

This looks really cool, but the author... is... replacing their laptop every year ? Like, I'm writing this on an 8 year old MBP that has survived as my round-the-house driver because it still does everything well. My daily driver is getting on a bit now (3yr) and my desktop only just got replaced after 5 years. Forget the cost, but the waste!

The author does address that > The environmental consequences of that system weren't lost on me, even given my very good track-record of re-homing my old computers with people who needed them.

That's not really addressing it. It's just acknowledging it.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#287

Post by roland35 » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

tombert wrote: post #158

toast0 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at your trend, you've got $500 laptop / 2 year, or $2000 laptop / 5 year, which reduces to $250 laptop / year vs $400 laptop / year. Getting low cost laptops isn't necessarily a worse financial outcome, although it depends on how fast the processor updates are moving; when a 2020 intel cpu is about the same as a 2015 intel cpu, it would probably have been better to pay a little more in 2015 for a faster one;…

Yeah, I've actually done this math too, though I don't think it's quite this simple. When a laptop started falling apart, I usually tried to just put up with it until I couldn't. For example, I used to have an Asus computer whose plastic surrounding the screen decided to start coming detached from the monitor flap. This made the laptop substantially more fragile and annoying to use, and after a certain point I tried…

Maybe next time your 7 key breaks you can set up a macro so everytime you type "6+1" it will replace it with "7"!

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#288

Post by ip26 » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

burundi_coffee wrote: post #227

MMS21 wrote: post #49

>That tool – a small screwdriver – is also sufficient to upgrade the CPU CPU isn't up-gradable without switching out the entire mainboard, which I'm fine with, once I get an AMD version that is :)

The CPU is not socketed/replacable because intel simply does not sell socketed laptop CPUs. If there was a socketed alternative, I'm sure it would be in the framework.

Sockets add measurable height, weight, & power. That part, at least, isn't just a conspiracy.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#289

Post by s0rce » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

ericpauley wrote: post #253

mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

I think the proliferation of usb-c has finally solved the universal port issue, you can just buy a 3rd party dongle with HDMI/displayport, usb-c (with pass through charging), sd-card, usb, etc. and it works great. Meets my needs pretty well.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#290

Post by londgine » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

> Another caveat. I really miss my Thinkpad Trackpoint (the little nub in the middle of the keyboard) and the three hardware mouse buttons on the trackpad. I'm finding it really hard to reliably hit the right region on my trackpad to get the left-, center- and middle-buttons.

Yes! This is one of the main reasons that I will stick with Thinkpads. there are times that I have a mouse plugged in, but still use the track point since I then don't have to move my hand. I hope that they will add a track point to their laptop.