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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#131

Post by fayten »

ashtonkem wrote: post #50

I still remained baffled by the popularity of the laptop. Literally everyone I know works with them fixed in one location; their desk. Yes, some people do need mobility, but this appears to be a minority of consumers. We could’ve had all this repairability and modularity years ago if most consumers just admitted that really they wanted a desktop all along. It also fixed complaints about keyboards.

I'm not sure how common it is, but at my old job devs and business analysts would regularly go on site to work with clients. Larger teams would have build boxes for CI and VMs that we could remote into if need be, but other than that laptops were absolutely required.

I'm currently writing this at a coffee shop surrounded by others all working on various things. I really like the option to work from anywhere.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#132

Post by foxfluff »

MMS21 wrote: post #80
flatiron wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ive seen a lot of requests for an AMD version but i always see people complain about AMD's linux support. Do you plan on running windows? If you are planning on Linux is the support really as bad as people complain. I say that because intel's linux support seems to me as top notch. ive never really had driver issues that i can think of

That's weird. I always see people claiming AMD is superior for Linux due to their opensource drivers (intel and nvidia are not). btw certain distro devs were provided with Framework laptops a while back https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop

Intel does write open source drivers for Linux. In my experience they are more reliable than AMD's.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#133

Post by xvector »

tombert wrote: post #25

It feels like for years we were constantly told by these corporations "it's impossible to have slim, tiny laptops and make them customizable", and I guess at some level I believed that, and just accepted that laptops with upgradable components were a thing of the past. After seeing the framework, I'm more than a little annoyed that I fell for this. They proved you can have a slim, clean laptop that's somewhat modular…

The Framework has half the battery life of similarly sized alternatives. No one was lying to you.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#134

Post by afterburner »

dickfickling wrote: post #58
ad133 wrote: post #7

This looks really cool, but the author... is... replacing their laptop every year ? Like, I'm writing this on an 8 year old MBP that has survived as my round-the-house driver because it still does everything well. My daily driver is getting on a bit now (3yr) and my desktop only just got replaced after 5 years. Forget the cost, but the waste!

As the other comments have noted, Cory addresses this further down in the linked post. He further expanded on this in the post he wrote when he quit smoking[0]: > That was my homework: go away and think of an immediate reason not to smoke. When I came back, I had my answer ready: “I spend two laptops per year on smokes. That money goes directly to the dirtiest companies on Earth, the literal inventors of the science-…

Or he could just save the money. But I guess he has to constantly reward himself for quitting? Man addiction sure is a pain.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#135

Post by squeaky-clean »

flatiron wrote: post #57
MMS21 wrote: post #49

>That tool – a small screwdriver – is also sufficient to upgrade the CPU CPU isn't up-gradable without switching out the entire mainboard, which I'm fine with, once I get an AMD version that is :)

ive seen a lot of requests for an AMD version but i always see people complain about AMD's linux support. Do you plan on running windows? If you are planning on Linux is the support really as bad as people complain. I say that because intel's linux support seems to me as top notch. ive never really had driver issues that i can think of

AMD CPUs and Linux have always been fine for me. The GPUs on the other hand...

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#136

Post by toast0 »

tombert wrote: post #53
ad133 wrote: post #7

This looks really cool, but the author... is... replacing their laptop every year ? Like, I'm writing this on an 8 year old MBP that has survived as my round-the-house driver because it still does everything well. My daily driver is getting on a bit now (3yr) and my desktop only just got replaced after 5 years. Forget the cost, but the waste!

Back when I was making crap wages, I would get the cheapest laptops I could afford that would more or less give me decent performance (on the order of ~$500-600). It's not too hard to find a new laptop that performs well at a reasonable price, but you always run the risk of them reclaiming those costs by cheaping out on all the mechanics of it, and it's not like I was able to afford paying ~$2000 for a high-quality m…

Looking at your trend, you've got $500 laptop / 2 year, or $2000 laptop / 5 year, which reduces to $250 laptop / year vs $400 laptop / year. Getting low cost laptops isn't necessarily a worse financial outcome, although it depends on how fast the processor updates are moving; when a 2020 intel cpu is about the same as a 2015 intel cpu, it would probably have been better to pay a little more in 2015 for a faster one; when a 2015 intel cpu smokes a 2010 intel cpu, incremental updates every year or two mean a low cost 2015 cpu is probably better than a high cost 2010 cpu. Plus, you get a battery refresh (even if it's small).

I think there's more junk at the low end to avoid, but it's not as if the high end doesn't have a lot of junk to avoid. Either way, you have to do careful shopping.

It's like just my opinion, but a lot of higher end laptop spending seems to be on increasing the screen's DPI, which is then run with scaling, at the cost of more CPU, more RAM, more GPU, and more software BS. Buying a cheaper laptop with fewer pixels that just runs 1:1 saves all that extra computation and BS, and maybe looks a bit less nice. Sometimes glossy screens are reserved for the high cost laptops, which is like wait, I want a matte screen, so I have to save money to get one, great!

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#137

Post by leetcrew »

tombert wrote: post #88
jeffbee wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Framework is larger and weighs more than contemporary machines that have larger displays (e.g. ThinkPad X1 Carbon 9th generation), and it has worse performance and shorter battery life because soldered-in RAM isn't some kind of scam, it's actually much better . In short, it was not a lie that you get smaller, lighter, and better laptops with integration. You do, in fact, get all of those things.

Is that a property of the components being soldered in, or just a property of the fact that Framework cannot get access to the highest quality components on the market? Genuine question, I know very little about electrical components.

the mounting hardware needed for replaceable dimms inherently takes more space on and above the board. the solder approach also gives more flexibility for board layout, since you don't have to reserve space for the exact size and shape of a standard module. see a teardown of the new blade 14 to see how this can be beneficial.

there is an inherent tradeoff between size, battery life, and modularity. if you can make a modular laptop with good specs and battery life, a competitor will always be able to offer the same thing in a smaller chassis or with a bigger battery.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#138

Post by renke1 »

philliphaydon wrote: post #118
renke1 wrote: post #60

I am growing increasingly unhappy with Thinkpads in general, but as far as I know there is no real alternative for TrackPoint users. There are some that have a TrackPoint but they lack three physical mouse button that are in reach of ones thumbs.

Why are you growing unhappy? (I have a X1 Extreme Gen 1, and Legion 7, and Legion 5 Pro, so I'm curious)

A few things. The newer TrackPoint caps are not good. I actually had to order some 3D printed one from some Japanese guy. Also my Thinkpad T14 is throttling to the extent that I had to install tools [1] (?) that fix this problem. Battery seems to be bad as well. Intel by the way, I wanted to have Thunderbolt for an eGPU.

[1]: https://github.com/erpalma/throttled

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#140

Post by hkt »

epistasis wrote: post #39
topspin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus (the "tech tips" one) said something that sticks in my mind: "The only reason other companies can't do this - and Framework proved it - is because they don't care."

Well, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.

A friend of mine has a fairphone and broke its screen while he was staying with me. The fairphone is quite similar insofar as it is designed to be long lived and user serviceable. He ordered a screen, next day delivery, and changed it himself for about £60.

Users care!

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