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Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

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191–200 of 278 posts

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#191
post #6

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when yo…

Off topic. Do firings come out of the blue though? I was a VP for a while (not anymore) - but when the person I had to fire was about to get fired, they KNEW it as soon as the door opened. Firing someone is the worst experience ever - the only reason I had to fire someone was because WE screwed up in the interview process.

> the only reason I had to fire someone was because WE screwed up in the interview process.

Are you referring to some clerical error or is this assuming that candidates are only as good as they are at interview time and they're incapable of stepping up to the unexpected demands of a role?

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#192
post #6

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when yo…

How incredibly insensitive.

Maybe if they knew ahead of time, but they didn't, so it was just a joke, and in no conceivable way an insensitive one.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#193
post #162
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had a friend uncharacteristically not respond to a couple texts confirming plans we'd made. I eventually sent "Are you alive?" and got a call back from the hiking companion who had watched her fall to her death two days earlier. That one gives me nightmares.

Her death is of course tragic, but there's nothing wrong with the text question -- you were on target.

I don't believe anyone asking this question expects the recipient to have actually passed away though

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a couple of mass layoffs. How much you see that coming can be a function of how close to the decision-making you are and how familiar you are with the process. As I've advanced, I've progressively seen it coming farther out. But the first one was totally out of the blue to me. Individual firings seem a bit more predictable.

Do you have any tips/signs to look out for :-)

Unscheduled one-on-one early in the day, possibly with HR present, and your manager looks incredibly nervous.

Take a deep breath, go in, say nothing, sign nothing, demand your last paycheck. The decision has been made, and anything you say only hurts your case if you sue later.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#195
post #6

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when yo…

Yeah, that is pretty rough. I've been in similar situations and I tell my self to just try to be a better person today than to dwell over the past. I can't change what I've done but try to do better.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#196

As a more general advice - person in position of power should not joke about causing harm. Whether is is manager joking about firing employee, stronger person joking about beating up weaker one or parent joking about throwing child out of house when they misbehave. This kind of humor works only when it is coming from weaker position and even then only in certain situations.

I grew up in a region parents would randomly say something like the following to their kids on daily basis and I hated it: - You’re eating too much and we can’t afford you, we will giving you to human traffickers for free. - If you go out and play before finishing the homework you will be eaten by wolves. - If you don’t obey the cops are going to arrest and execute you. - Stay away from dogs or it will bite your pp o…

Guess now you get to return the favor and spend a decade talking about sending them to the nursing home.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#197
post #6

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when yo…

Off topic. Do firings come out of the blue though? I was a VP for a while (not anymore) - but when the person I had to fire was about to get fired, they KNEW it as soon as the door opened. Firing someone is the worst experience ever - the only reason I had to fire someone was because WE screwed up in the interview process.

I never know of a case when termination was coming out of the blue. I had to terminate a few dozen people over the past 20 years, it was not a surprise for anyone and many people even though "why did it take so long?" in some cases. In every single case was a problem with the recruiting (not interview) process. 15-20 years ago it was hiring the cheapest people possible, in the past 5 years it is hiring any people to meet diversity quota, in both cases skills were far from requirements and the desire to learn was almost zero.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#198

Don't Joke is a good advice in general for management and leadership. You have to assume people will read into most of the stuff you say as you are their primary information conduit for anything related to workplace.

I led a team of about 65 engineers at my previous job. One of things that became apparent at around the 20 mark was that rumors spread so quickly and a comment I didn't think twice about crystallized into "marching orders" very quickly.

Make jokes, it helps build rapport with people you spend so much time with! But be careful about the message you convey, people will run wild with it overnight.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a couple of mass layoffs. How much you see that coming can be a function of how close to the decision-making you are and how familiar you are with the process. As I've advanced, I've progressively seen it coming farther out. But the first one was totally out of the blue to me. Individual firings seem a bit more predictable.

Do you have any tips/signs to look out for :-)

If you can keep a bead on the welfare of the department you're working in if its a large corporation. Smaller startups, its usually pretty obvious.

My two examples:

Worked at a telecom company during the CLEC, deregulation days. Group of private investors devised a scheme whereas they would grow this small existing telecom company and then sell it off to a larger company and make millions. They had about $3M altogether invested. CEO burned through $2M in 6 months for stupid stuff like sky boxes at the local sports teams arena's and other frivolous stuff. Sales were slumping, we were getting a lot of calls from unhappy customers during installs. There were multiple closed door meetings with the investors. The funny part was the conference room had really thin walls and there were a lot of yelling during those meetings. You didn't have to be a genius to know whatever they had planned, wasn't happening. The final coffin was when one of the network guys told me he overheard one of the closed door meetings. He said the group was split on whether to continue the company, or fold up shop. Threats of lawsuits essentially ended the meeting and they all marched out of the office in a hurry. To me, I already felt like this wasn't going to last. Now I had confirmation and started planning to find another job.

I also worked at a huge corporation in their development department. We were a new team working on some big initiatives the company wanted to get going. Everything was going pretty smoothly. Then the recession hit in 2008. Then over the course of several lunches with various people in other departments, I found out several departments were having layoffs, reducing budgets, and putting projects on hold. Pretty soon, a lot of the teams we were working with which had dozens of people working on them, suddenly only had two or three developers. It really felt like the walls were closing in so I started looking. Literally the day I put in my two week notice, my manager said they were planning on putting our two projects on hold and laying everybody off within the next two weeks.

I think it just comes down to paying attention to what's going on around you. There's always signs things are not going well, you just have to recognize them when they present themselves. At both places, there were people who held on until it was too late. One of the techs at the telecom company said he came in one morning and the office was dark, and a security guard told him they had shut down the company and because of legal reasons, nobody could go in the office.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#200
post #14

It's weird, I have worked at many organisations - and at almost none of them did my manager have the ability to fire me. Is this an American thing? In most of these orgs, getting rid of someone is kind of hard work, usually involving a lot of HR. A manager would have much more luck getting you moved to a different team.

As a Brit who has been both managed and manager in the UK, Scandinavian and Europe for 2 decades, my first thought was also, "wtf, this must be a US thing".

When managing people, why on earth would joking about firing people even cross your mind?

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