Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#51

Post by dfxm12 » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

stevage wrote: post #14

It's weird, I have worked at many organisations - and at almost none of them did my manager have the ability to fire me. Is this an American thing? In most of these orgs, getting rid of someone is kind of hard work, usually involving a lot of HR. A manager would have much more luck getting you moved to a different team.

The uniquely American thing (compared to your perspective, at least) is you can get fired for almost any reason, or no reason at all [0]. In any case, whether that decision technically comes from the manager or the manager filling out paperwork which is then approved by HR, or if the manager is merely being used as the bearer of bad news, etc., I think is beside the point.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#52

Post by JohnFen » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #37

checkyoursudo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a person who started joking about leaving if they gave him a pile of money and showed him the door. He was super valuable to the company and very senior. New CEO and VPs come in and start demanding cuts. A couple of months later, guess who was given a pile of money and shown the door?

Always strange that 'cuts' often involve spending more money. I guess the size of the pile is relevant, and I get that it's offset against potential future cost/commitment. Person X at $100k is given ... $40k to quit now, because it will save company perhaps $260k in the next 2 years. But.. that $40k is coming from somewhere now, no? Maybe some is coming from other folks cut immediately without the big pile of cash?

This might be related to a business truth that I learned the hard way...

It's generally cheaper to make a single larger payout than to engage in recurring smaller payouts.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#53

Post by notjustanymike » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #34

notjustanymike wrote: post #29

Watch Band of Brothers for more solid leadership advice. My favorite: "Never put yourself in a position where you can take something from these men."

Funny you bring that up. Rewatching this with my wife - haven't seen it in... 18 years? That's one of those lines that has stuck with me the last couple days (midway through so far). Really, much of the last 5 episodes are a blur - I can't digest all the violence. But that line just sticks out. Any others that have stuck with you?

None specifically, but since I've been managing a team of 9 engineers during the pandemic I certainly sympathize with Nixon becoming an alcoholic.

It's also an interesting show to watch as you progress in your career. Winters always wants to be part of the action, but is told to hold back and trust his men as he advances in rank. There's lessons there for anyone transitioning from individual contributor to leader.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#54

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

I feel that it's sad this even needs to be advice. I'd think it should be obvious, but we miss "obvious" things, every day.

Management is, way too often, treated as a "privilege," and a "reward."

I was a manager for 25 years. I never felt "privileged," and I considered it a "curse."

I hated every damn minute of it, but I kept doing it, because I am a control freak, and couldn't trust anyone else to do a better job. I also avoided getting promoted, because I didn't want to leave my team in the hands of the other managers I knew.

Most of my peers and superiors provided object examples in what not to do.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#55

Post by mberning » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

I don’t think it’s good for employees to joke about either. I worked with a guy that was constantly half joking about getting fired, layoffs, etc. It’s a real drag to hear about all the time.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#56

Post by michaelt » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

perpetualpatzer wrote: post #32

tomrod wrote: post #3

Extremely important advice. Add to that: push upper management for change details, keep timelines and punctuality, define delivery, be up front on status and results, go home at a reasonable hour, take people to lunch or otherwise spend time with them, make your team appointments your number one priority, and praise publicly/coach privately.

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by "define delivery"?

If I tell a guy to make me a table, and he puts his heart and soul into making me a beautiful wooden dining table, then when he shows it to me I tell him I actually wanted a glass coffee table and would he please start over from scratch, throwing his work away will be very bad for his morale.

That's not to say requirements can't change - of course they can. But they shouldn't change just because I forgot to make myself clear the first time.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#57

Post by joelbluminator » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #6

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when yo…

I remember the doctor called and wanted to speak to my ex wife and I jokingly talled her she got cancer. She didn't though, it was Aids. To this day I think my joke softened the blow for her a bit.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#58

Post by Veen » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

anoonmoose wrote: post #39

freen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, think about your position of power in a historical context. Are you a member of a group that has traditionally held power? A gender that has traditionally been considered “superior” or “acceptable”? Same thing applies there too.

GP getting upvoted because managers are in the minority on HN P getting downvoted because members of historically powerful groups and genders are not in the minority on HN

Or because no one likes being lectured by pompous self-righteous strangers on a topic barely relevant to the article. Especially when it's something we've all heard a thousand times before presented as if it were a gift of great wisdom.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#59

Post by rahulpadalkar » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

The title reminds me of the office episode.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#60

Post by firebird84 » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

stevage wrote: post #14

It's weird, I have worked at many organisations - and at almost none of them did my manager have the ability to fire me. Is this an American thing? In most of these orgs, getting rid of someone is kind of hard work, usually involving a lot of HR. A manager would have much more luck getting you moved to a different team.

They can start the process. Once that process is started your career inside the company is basically over. Even if you survive it (and/or survive the PIP) you will not want to work there anymore. May as well be fired at that point.