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Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

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Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#31

Post by Aeolun »

stevage wrote: post #14

It's weird, I have worked at many organisations - and at almost none of them did my manager have the ability to fire me. Is this an American thing? In most of these orgs, getting rid of someone is kind of hard work, usually involving a lot of HR. A manager would have much more luck getting you moved to a different team.

Depends on the type of contract they have. There’s a bunch of people that are on recurring 3 month contracts that can be let go at the end of each period.

The permanent employees however… better be prepared for a year long process.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#32

Post by perpetualpatzer »

tomrod wrote: post #3

Extremely important advice. Add to that: push upper management for change details, keep timelines and punctuality, define delivery, be up front on status and results, go home at a reasonable hour, take people to lunch or otherwise spend time with them, make your team appointments your number one priority, and praise publicly/coach privately.

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by "define delivery"?

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#33

Post by [deleted] »

stevage wrote: post #14

It's weird, I have worked at many organisations - and at almost none of them did my manager have the ability to fire me. Is this an American thing? In most of these orgs, getting rid of someone is kind of hard work, usually involving a lot of HR. A manager would have much more luck getting you moved to a different team.

[deleted]

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#34

Post by mgkimsal »

notjustanymike wrote: post #29

Watch Band of Brothers for more solid leadership advice. My favorite: "Never put yourself in a position where you can take something from these men."

Funny you bring that up. Rewatching this with my wife - haven't seen it in... 18 years? That's one of those lines that has stuck with me the last couple days (midway through so far). Really, much of the last 5 episodes are a blur - I can't digest all the violence. But that line just sticks out. Any others that have stuck with you?

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#35

Post by makach »

It is a very good advice. The general advice is really to be professional in the workplace. Don't make a joke, unless it is during lunch and you are trying to tell a real joke.

Don't use silly variable names, or add jokes or profanity into your code or documentation.

Sooner or later it will surface and there is NOTHING quite as embarrasing as showing a unknown third party or a manager something on the screen that screams immaturity.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to have fun at the workplace, because you should. Also it makes life at work much easier if everyone has fun- just be professional and respectful.

Also, sometimes you do slip up. Don't be afraid to apologize. It is ok. It is human to make errors, but learn from your mistakes and move on.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#36

Post by M2Ys4U »

thrawn0r wrote: post #20

sorry for folks working under this at-will employment where managers can just fire someone. In Germany, it involves consultations with HR, workers council etc. before you can fire someone. Most tech companies use packages to get rid of people.

Even for those of us lucky to have a proper processes protecting us, it can still be anxiety inducing.

After all, you're still likely to have to spend time and energy to defend yourself in some capacity, and you now think your manager isn't going to (or might not) have your back, either now or if something is going to happen in the future.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#37

Post by mgkimsal »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #26
arthur_sav wrote: post #7

What about quitting? I always joke about quitting

I know a person who started joking about leaving if they gave him a pile of money and showed him the door. He was super valuable to the company and very senior. New CEO and VPs come in and start demanding cuts. A couple of months later, guess who was given a pile of money and shown the door?

Always strange that 'cuts' often involve spending more money. I guess the size of the pile is relevant, and I get that it's offset against potential future cost/commitment.

Person X at $100k is given ... $40k to quit now, because it will save company perhaps $260k in the next 2 years. But.. that $40k is coming from somewhere now, no? Maybe some is coming from other folks cut immediately without the big pile of cash?

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#38

Post by gjvc »

This is excellent advice. I have witnessed this on several occasions, and it's always cringe-worthy to witness and harmful, if not to the recipient, then to one or more observers, who more often than not have to suffer in silence. My most benevolent interpretation is that this is just a low-effort attempt at humour, poorly judged and which has gone wrong.

It doesn't take much thought, really, to consider that the office may provide employees a welcome change of scene from their own swirling domestic situation, and to have one leak into the other like this may be quite upsetting.

I have promised myself that if/when I witness this again, I will take the opportunity to tell the manager in question that his/her remarks were damaging to their own standing, and that they would do well to apologise ASAP, be that in private or in public.

Be a leader of people and times [1], not simply a manager of issues and tasks.

[1] as in, "experiences"

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#39

Post by anoonmoose »

freen wrote: post #28
terramex wrote: post #11

As a more general advice - person in position of power should not joke about causing harm. Whether is is manager joking about firing employee, stronger person joking about beating up weaker one or parent joking about throwing child out of house when they misbehave. This kind of humor works only when it is coming from weaker position and even then only in certain situations.

Now, think about your position of power in a historical context. Are you a member of a group that has traditionally held power? A gender that has traditionally been considered “superior” or “acceptable”? Same thing applies there too.

GP getting upvoted because managers are in the minority on HN

P getting downvoted because members of historically powerful groups and genders are not in the minority on HN

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#40

Post by michaelt »

stevage wrote: post #14

It's weird, I have worked at many organisations - and at almost none of them did my manager have the ability to fire me. Is this an American thing? In most of these orgs, getting rid of someone is kind of hard work, usually involving a lot of HR. A manager would have much more luck getting you moved to a different team.

In medium/large companies, 99.9% of employees can be fired at the end of a HR process and that HR process is something only their line manager can start.

And while transferring an inept employee to another manager might save you some paperwork, it'll make that manager an enemy (unless the employee's performance is much improved by the move). So many managers would do the paperwork.

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