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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#661

Post by a1369209993 »

jhrmnn wrote: post #636
a1369209993 wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those elected by definition are the best people available. If by "available", you mean political candidates, then yes. If you mean of the society in general, then no, quite the opposite, actually. > So if they don't have good morals that means the whole society does not have good morals. No, it means two of the worst people in the society (namely, the 'republican' candidate and the 'democratic' candidate) do not ha…

I think this distrust in democracy as a system to elect representative people to legislate and govern is widespread and to a certain degree based on facts, but also deeply worrying. In a way it signifies a failure of democracy.

> In a way it signifies a failure of democracy.

I'd say "demonstrates the", but... yes? Obviously?

Democracy worked well early on because institutions hadn't yet figured out how to exploit it, not because it had any inherent resistance to exploitation; now it's like Merkel-Damgaard hash functions[0]: it was always broken, but now we (and the attackers) know it's broken and are seeing the consequences.

0: eg, MD5, SHA-1

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#662

Post by abandonliberty »

sershe wrote: post #626
ansible wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "left wing" in the USA is the "center-right" in other parts of the world. We're still a ways away from basic stuff like universal health care that every other developed country has.

Not really... somebody posted here recently, I cannot find a comment; supposedly posting CDU (German center-right party) policies into the recent NYT poll gets you lumped with trumpist wing of GOP. Many policies that are considered right-wing in the US enjoy broad support in European countries (e.g. official languages). Some things practiced Europe, like the Danish "immigrant ghetto" policies, would cause the US left…

Politicalcompass.org is super helpful for items like this. It turns out we're living in a very authoritarian/right wing world.

Here's a country comparison for the EU. Turns out most of Europe is fairly authoritarian/right wing: https://politicalcompass.org/euchart

Most countries at least have a somewhat relevant political party in quadrant 3 (libertarian/left), as you can see in the charts for EU, Germany, and Canada.

The 2020 US political candidates show very little differentiation between Trump/Biden, with both very authoritarian/right wing: https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#663

Post by oliwarner »

Siira wrote: post #473
Aunche wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of moral framework that creates cancel culture. Pulling out from Russia will decrease many Russian's standard of living, but will have zero impact in stopping them from rigging elections. If everyone cuts trade for moral reasons, then there's no incentive for us not to point nukes at each other again.

Bullshit. The Russians won’t be able to stop using iPhones, and with Apple out of Russia, the OS can be free from Russian influence.

If Apple didn't bend the knee, Russia could block its banks doing business with Apple, as well as simply blocking their networks.

Russia has a lot of power to flex against its own citizens.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#664

Post by Kublaicant »

emilsedgh wrote: post #612
tailspin2019 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interested in your thoughts on what would help? From your point of view?

I'll try my best, but obviously these are just my thoughts and a lot of other people don't necessarily agree with me. I think all authoritarian governments rely on a chunk of their population to stay in power. This population can be very small, but sufficient. In order to maintain their popularity they rely on: 1. Lack of education 2. Strong propaganda 3. Poverty 4. Social welfare 5. Religion & ideology 6. Fear of en…

Your assessment may be true for Iran, but I don't think they can be applied to Russia:

1. Russia has very high education -- it's ranked 3rd in the world in terms of people who attend college/university.

2. Russia is a 2nd-world country, so they don't suffer from extreme poverty.

3. Russians aren't very religious.

If Google leaves there wouldn't be much difference in terms of people accessing information on the web because most Russians already use Yandex for web search anyway.

But more importantly, the Russian government is already pushing to replaced foreign tech with Russian alternatives. They're pressuring Russian companies to switch to using local internet services, software, and they've supposedly developed the ability to "disconnect" Russian internet from the rest of open internet. So, if/when they're ready, they will do so. So, I think the point I'm trying to make is that the internet as a platform for information isn't some sort of catalyst for democracy. Russian people are smart and educated, but the authoritarian regime is as strong as it has ever been.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#665

Post by deltron3030 »

wwtrv wrote: post #206
deltron3030 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CEO & Board are legally obligated to act in their fiduciary interest. Short or long term? Because shitting on democracy for money is potentially very damaging for brands in the long term, the market and especially future comptetitors will remember it.

Is it? I’d love to believe you, but I doubt it’s the case. Almost every public company that had something to lose would act the same way under these circumstances..

Something to lose right now, but potentially a lot to gain in post smartphone markets, where trust becomes even more important as technology merges more and more with the human body. Brand trust is going to be much more important than it is right now.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#666

Post by bicepjai »

Most arguments are against Apple and Google. Playing devils advocate here. If let’s say trump created an app to show how many people support him in USA and it shows 60% of voting population support him during election time, what would you want these companies to do ? IMHO meddling in countries’ election should be a strong NO.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#667

Post by Siira »

oliwarner wrote: post #663
Siira wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. The Russians won’t be able to stop using iPhones, and with Apple out of Russia, the OS can be free from Russian influence.

If Apple didn't bend the knee, Russia could block its banks doing business with Apple, as well as simply blocking their networks. Russia has a lot of power to flex against its own citizens.

And leave its citizens with what alternative? The smartphone OS duopoly is stronger than one authoritarian little shit.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#668

Post by lambdadmitry »

skinkestek wrote: post #591
ashtonkem wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Leave and never be able to visit your family for as long as the current regime lasts” is a tough call. People do do that, but the pain of remaining has to be very high to make the tradeoffs palatable.

Pavel Durov knows a bit of this I heard.

He doesn't. He regularly visited Saint Petersburg office after being "exiled".

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#669

Post by sershe »

abandonliberty wrote: post #662
sershe wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really... somebody posted here recently, I cannot find a comment; supposedly posting CDU (German center-right party) policies into the recent NYT poll gets you lumped with trumpist wing of GOP. Many policies that are considered right-wing in the US enjoy broad support in European countries (e.g. official languages). Some things practiced Europe, like the Danish "immigrant ghetto" policies, would cause the US left…

Politicalcompass.org is super helpful for items like this. It turns out we're living in a very authoritarian/right wing world. Here's a country comparison for the EU. Turns out most of Europe is fairly authoritarian/right wing: https://politicalcompass.org/euchart Most countries at least have a somewhat relevant political party in quadrant 3 (libertarian/left), as you can see in the charts for EU, Germany, and Canada…

So, apparently Sweden, with massive taxes and welfare state, is 85+% right-wing (on l2r axis), and even the democratic socialist (literally meaning worker control of means of production), free-everything Sanders just barely makes it to the left side. It looks like this compass needs some declination adjustment.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#670

Post by viktorcode »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #579
viktorcode wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app is still available in other countries, so in order to install it in Russia one just have to create another Apple account to install it from a foregn app store on the device.

"Just" creating another Apple account means forfeiting all your data, apps, purchases etc. There are many simpler ways to access that same data, for example on navalny's website via a vpn. But all those ways are too complicated for most people.

That's not how it works on iOS. iCloud and App Store accounts can be switched independently. After the installation you can switch back to your main account, and all your data will still be there. Newly installed app should auto-update as well.

I personally have apps from 2-3 different countries' store accounts on my Apple devices.

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