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An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

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Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#11

Post by morsch »

peakaboo wrote: post #3

We live in interesting times, where "conspiracy theories" become true after about 6 months. The reality of the situation is that people who actually pay attention, not the ones who constantly watch the TV news narrative, have been able to not only understand the true origin of covid, but also predict the entire chain of events that has occurred as a consequence. When will the general public stop seeing conspiracy the…

When will the general public stop seeing conspiracy theories as imaginary tales? They have been 100% accurate so far with covid.

This can either mean a) all covid conspiracy theories are 100% accurate or b) some covid conspiracy theories are 100% accurate.

Many covid conspiracy theories are incompatible with one another, so they cannot each be accurate 100%. So you cannot mean a). But b) is a much weaker claim: anything can be called a conspiracy theory, and consequently the claim just ends up being that somebody was right at some point in time. Claim b) has little to no predictive power.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#13

Post by sharken »

wilsonfiifi wrote: post #8

Does it even matter any more? From where I stand Covid-19 might have been much less devastating globally if it had been treated seriously in the early days. In fact, based on the initial footage from Wuhan, countries should have adopted more stringent protocols when they repatriated their nationals, i.e. quarantine on arrival etc... If in doubt throw everything including the kitchen sink at just to be sure. But it is…

I guess we have to accept the fact that when Russia or China is involved, then we cannot find the truth. The same can even be said of the US.

The 1977 H1N1 spread was never truly explained, here a possible lab incident in Russia was one of the possibilities:

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.01013-15?permanent...

The Coronavirus from Wuhan, China has a similar story, only this time it is in China.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

To me a solid scientific explanation is still useful, e.g. the intimate study of the Wuhan lab into Coronavirus seems risky at best.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#14

Post by inglor_cz »

peakaboo wrote: post #4

It's so interesting to me that people can't even imagine that covid could be intentionally created and let out. Not a leak, not an accident. Is it because people don't understand that actual evil exists outside of movies? That there are extreamly powerful people in the world that will throw babies into fires because they believe in occult entities? This is not imaginary. We live in a world where very evil people exis…

Both bioweapons and chemical weapons suffer from a deployability problem. Sure, you will cause some harm; perhaps even great harm; but there is no guarantee you will emerge out of the chaos better off than your adversaries.

What did China win so far? Paranoia of the rest of the world and an acute realization of most Western nations that they need to rethink their alliances (see the recent AUKUS story) and their supply chains.

The only active malice scenario I could find plausible would be "a single person or a small cult such as Aum Shinrikyo decided to unleash horror on the world". But in the real world, accidents outnumber crimes by orders of magnitude.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#16

Post by asxd »

peakaboo wrote: post #6
playcache wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When will the general public stop seeing conspiracy theories as imaginary tales? Covid leaked from a lab is viable. Bill Gates injecting microchips into everyone in order to invoke a new global cabal I would argue is firmly in the imaginary tale bracket.

So far, I agree. Nothing has been able to show microchips in the vaccines. If its there, it's using technology that is so far ahead of what's in the general domain that it's undetectable. It doesn't seem plausible at all.

Also, why? What gain would come from putting little computers into people's blood?

If it's for some sort of behavioral tracking, it seems like a lot of effort considering everyone is already carrying a computer in their pocket.

I guess I also would like to know why Bill Gates has become such a target for conspiracy theorists lately? My impression has been that he's pretty sincerely involved in improving conditions in the underdeveloped world. I'm wondering if I missed something that caused people to believe he has some horrible intention?

I hope this is taken as an honest question. I know it's easy to bash on folks who buy into conspiracy theories, but I also happen to know (and am fond of) quite a few of them. Bringing up these topics is always delicate, and I'd be interested in getting to know what's going through their minds.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#17

Post by dreen »

It's well known that local Chinese authorities silenced a doctor (Li Wenliang) who was giving early warnings about the virus. That to me is a more grave mistake than an accidental lab leak, because they lost a chance to nip it in the bud. Accidents happen and quick response is essential.

An intentional lab leak makes no sense to me at all. Its like starting a fire in your house to spite your neighbour.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#18

Post by dogsboywonder »

The amount of censorship, especially among the qualified scientific community in just about every facet of this disease is alarming. Even if the origins were accidental or lab-born or whatnot, the response has been so politicized worldwide that pure science has been largely thrown out the window. Every possibility should be analyzed & tested, even if it goes against the interests of a ruling party and all parties are guilty of exploiting this.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#19

Post by chrisco255 »

wilsonfiifi wrote: post #8

Does it even matter any more? From where I stand Covid-19 might have been much less devastating globally if it had been treated seriously in the early days. In fact, based on the initial footage from Wuhan, countries should have adopted more stringent protocols when they repatriated their nationals, i.e. quarantine on arrival etc... If in doubt throw everything including the kitchen sink at just to be sure. But it is…

It's clearly too virulent to contain as is evident nearly 2 years later.

Yes it matters. If China (and other orgs) are responsible they should be held criminally and civilly liable. Millions have died on account of what appears to have been reckless and dangerous gain of function research. If there's no accountability, it will happen again.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#20

Post by zarzavat »

wilsonfiifi wrote: post #8

Does it even matter any more? From where I stand Covid-19 might have been much less devastating globally if it had been treated seriously in the early days. In fact, based on the initial footage from Wuhan, countries should have adopted more stringent protocols when they repatriated their nationals, i.e. quarantine on arrival etc... If in doubt throw everything including the kitchen sink at just to be sure. But it is…

In the UK we quarantined all people coming in from Wuhan, while flights from Chinese cities outside of Wuhan continued to run without restriction, even though it was known that the virus was there too.

There was a lot of wishful thinking and denialism back in January/February 2020.

The only country that got the initial response right was North Korea, they shut all their borders, and were mocked for it too.

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